Derivatives - The Most Common Stock Trading Tool

Season 4 ending?? We are shocked as this whole segment has been very packed with information and also moved so quickly. In this episode we talk about derivatives. Options, futures, and so on. This is the most commonly used tool in the market trading community, especially in the Hedge Fund sector. This means that there is something of value to learn and we want you to know more about it!

Thank you for following us on Season 4! Season 5 is just around the corner. We have so much to still talk about but we are also running out of basics. Make sure to visit our facebook page for suggestions for what you want to hear about!

Transcript

Chris Holling: 0:00

This is the truth about investing back to basics podcast where we want to help you take control of your personal finance and long term investments. If you're looking for a way to learn the why and how investing, then you found the right place. Thank you for taking the time to learn how to better yourselves. We can just introduced from here, that's fine. Well, welcome. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, everybody back to another episode of The Truth about investing back to basics. My name is Chris Holling.

Sean Cooper: 0:41

And I'm Sean Cooper.

Chris Holling: 0:42

Today, we're going to talk about derivatives. Right?

Sean Cooper: 0:47

Exactly,

Chris Holling: 0:48

exactly. Which actually, I believe this is our our season finale of the season. Oh, shoot, is this four is the season four.

Sean Cooper: 0:57

Sounds right.

Chris Holling: 0:58

You know, we just do so many of these that you kind of lose track after a while of seasons. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. So yeah, we're wrapping up season four. Which is kind of crazy, actually. Yeah, I don't know. I'm looking. I'm looking forward to to new things and different things. And I don't know what I'm talking about. Now. Tell me about derivatives. Seanski.

Sean Cooper: 1:26

Nah that's not the way it starts. You get a say what you get to tell everybody what you think derivatives are and then I take over. It's lot more fun that way. At least for me.

Chris Holling: 1:38

Okay. Well, in case you all don't know, let me tell you exactly what a derivative is. A derivative clearly is a when you own. I believe this is true. So if I'm completely wrong, then I'm going to be completely embarrassed. I believe. Yes.

Sean Cooper: 2:11

No.

Chris Holling: 2:12

Oh, what the hell am I describing? Nothing. Something that doesn't even exist

Sean Cooper: 2:20

Dividends? I mean,

Chris Holling: 2:21

oh, maybe I'm describing dividends. The other D word? That is fancy in finance.

Sean Cooper: 2:27

Um, yeah, sometimes I wish I think we should have like a video cuz then you could have seen my facial expression.

Chris Holling: 2:38

And it would have been good if like, I still couldn't see your face. So like, I would just keep making it worse and worse and worse and worse. No, I no. Yeah. See, I have no idea. That's, I'm so I'm so glad that I can entertain you. With me, yeah. Okay, well, then I have no idea what a derivative is. So your turn.

Sean Cooper: 3:04

Okay. So people familiar with mathematics will understand that the basic idea of derivatives and the the idea in finance is fairly similar, it's, as opposed to the original thing, it's a additional in finance, it's an additional means of owning it in, in mathematics it would be the equivalent of measuring the slope of a line but it's a different means of owning an underlying so it's a derivative of an underlying asset.

Chris Holling: 3:39

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 3:41

There are four basic versions of derivatives. Now the the one that most people are probably the most familiar with are going to be options. The most commonly trader are actually futures contracts, and they're actually probably the simplest to understand in general terms. So a futures contract is literally an agreement to buy or sell a commodity at a set price on a future date.

Chris Holling: 4:14

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 4:15

So as opposed to, you know, you go into the market and saying, Okay, I want to buy a bushel of corn. Is it a bushel of corn? I feel like that's right. Maybe

Chris Holling: 4:29

you could be right I just, I even even if you are right, I can't think of a time that I've told somebody you know, I would like to buy a bushel of corn today. So I'm going to go to the store.

Sean Cooper: 4:38

Well now you should probably do so just to see what the reaction is.

Chris Holling: 4:45

I have to look it up. Or or kind of like a Murder of Crows. Maybe it's a murder of corn. I'm looking it up now bushel okay. Is it a bushel of corn? Sure. per bushel is 56 pounds.

Sean Cooper: 5:05

Yeah, there you go see?

Chris Holling: 5:06

I'm gonna buy 56 pounds of corn today. That's, that's amazing. Yep, sure. So you go to the store to buy 56 pounds of corn or a bushel,

Sean Cooper: 5:19

right? So instead of buying something today, you actually set a contract with the store, or more likely a farmer and say, Hey, I'd like to buy X amount of corn from you. This is the price that we'll agree upon. And I'll buy it on this day. The reason people enter into these transactions is, you know, from a farmer's perspective, or, you know, whoever's harvesting the the commodity, whatever it is oil, soybeans, natural gas, timber, whatever it is, whatever commodity we're talking about. From their standpoint, there's a price risk. Okay. Every year, if I'm harvesting wheat, I know I'm going to have a bunch of wheat available for sale. On this day, sometime, mid, late summer, I would assume I don't know exactly when they harvest wheat, I can tell you,

Chris Holling: 6:20

Wheat?

Sean Cooper: 6:21

Yes,

Chris Holling: 6:22

you don't know when they harvest wheat

Sean Cooper: 6:23

I cant tell you when they harvest like timothy hay or something. Out here, they normally get a couple of cuttings. But anyway, the point is, they know roughly when it's going to be available, what they don't know is what their price is going to be at that point. So they use futures contracts, basically, as a hedge to say, Okay, I'm going to enter into this deal with this person, who is has said they will buy X amount of wheat, in this case from me, at this price. So if the price drops between now and then I no longer have the risk of having to sell my wheat at a much lower price or, you know, selling it basically at a loss potentially.

Chris Holling: 7:10

Right?

Sean Cooper: 7:11

You know, I know what the price is, I'm set, this will cover my costs a little bit of profit, I'll take that the offsetting risk is the price could go up and they lose out on that because they've already entered into this contract. That is a futures contract. They're very, they're very fixed contracts, they are predetermined. And people can buy and sell and trade them at will, very easily. But the point is this, this contract is not the underlying thing. I'm not actually buying corn, I'm not actually buying wheat. If I buy the futures contract, I'm, I'm buying an agreement to buy or sell it, I'm not necessarily buying the underlying product the underlying commodity. Okay. And for, for investors, that's very, very typical. They're not they don't they have no desire to actually take possession of the corn,

Chris Holling: 8:09

the 56 pounds of corn,

Sean Cooper: 8:11

right? I thought you said was 50 Yeah, 56? Yeah, yeah, anyway

Chris Holling: 8:15

a murderer of corn.

Sean Cooper: 8:22

But they are happy to, you know, take profits on if I can buy this futures contract that says I'm going to, with the futures contract, they're more interested in the fluctuation of the underlying futures future itself. So in, if we're talking about the, the wheat, for example, if they enter a contract to sell for X price, and the price goes down, then that futures contract is on the hook to sell, or rather, is in a position to sell at a higher price. So that futures contract, the value of that contract will actually go up if the price has gone down. Conversely, if the price goes up, then that futures contract that has agreed to sell at a lower price becomes less valuable. So they're actually trading the the change in the value of the future itself. Based on the change in the value of the underlying commodity,

Chris Holling: 9:23

okay,

Sean Cooper: 9:24

now, technically speaking, these futures can reach their date and the person may still not want to take possession of the corn or the oil or whatever it is, in which case, they just do a cash settlement and, you know, the whoever, whatever the the transaction differential is, one person one party just pays the other one the difference. But the point is, so this is just one type of derivative where you're not actually investing in the underlying commodity. You're investing in a contract to buy or sell the commodity. As I said, this was designed so that people who actually wanted the underlying commodity or want to do so wanted to buy or sell the underlying commodity could do so and remove some risk, basically hedge their risk to a certain degree. But from an investor's standpoint, in many cases, they just buy and sell the contracts themselves so that they can profit from the underlying change in value.

Chris Holling: 10:26

Gotcha. Okay.

Sean Cooper: 10:27

So that would be a few future. That's one type of derivative. And another would be a forward contract, which is very much like a future except it's customized between two parties. So there, there aren't a bunch of forward contracts out there that you can just click on and buy and trade and stuff like that, you know, two parties actually get together hash out the deal, and say, Okay, this is what we're going to do. And it's very, very specific to those two parties. So it's over the counter, there's no, there's not the same type of third party trading that goes on in forward contracts, which also involves some more credit risk on the parties that are there are entering into the contract. Typically speaking, it also means that the parties entering the contract are more likely to be the the types that are ultimately trying to, you know, buy or sell the underlying commodity as opposed to just trading. But it is still a derivative, it is not the underlying product you are buying or selling a forward contract.

Chris Holling: 11:34

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 11:36

Okay. The one that people are most, probably most familiar with would be options. So again, they they trade freely on the exchanges, you can buy and sell options pretty much at will. The difference being instead of with a futures contract, it is a contract to actually buy or sell something at a set price on a certain date. Options. Don't say that you are going to buy or sell something, it gives you the literally the option to buy or sell something.

Chris Holling: 12:15

Oh, okay.

Sean Cooper: 12:17

You see the distrinction there?

Chris Holling: 12:18

like claiming claiming dibs.

Sean Cooper: 12:21

Yeah, yeah, if you will, if you will. Yeah, but

Chris Holling: 12:23

Financial investing dibs.

Sean Cooper: 12:26

Right, but there's no actual obligation to do so at least on one partys side, there is on the other partys side. So for example, if I there are calls and puts. So a call is the option to buy. A typically we're talking about stocks here. Whereas a put is the option to sell. So if so you can sell or buy a call and sell or buy a put,

Chris Holling: 12:57

okay.

Sean Cooper: 12:59

So for example, if I sold you a call, I'm selling you the option to buy a stock from me,

Chris Holling: 13:09

okay?

Sean Cooper: 13:10

What that means is you now if you bought it, so you pay me something for that option. And you now have the option to buy that stock from me, within a certain time period at a set price,

Chris Holling: 13:24

okay.

Sean Cooper: 13:26

But you are not in under any obligation to actually execute that option. So you can choose to let it expire worthless, you can sell it to another third party. Or you can execute the option and say, Yes, I'm going to buy that from you. Most likely, because the the price has gone up. So for example, if you buy an option to buy a stock from me for $50, and the price of that stock goes to$60, then you would execute your option to buy from me at 50 and then go into the market and sell those shares that you just bought from me for $50. You would sell them for $60 and make a nice profit, minus whatever you paid me for the option itself.

Chris Holling: 14:10

Okay. I think that makes sense.

Sean Cooper: 14:12

So

Chris Holling: 14:13

So what

Sean Cooper: 14:14

go ahead

Chris Holling: 14:14

Sorry, well, I was I was gonna ask, so what if? What if I decide to, to not go through with it? Like, is it just a? Hey, thanks for giving me the chance or does it? Does it cost you to to not go through with it? Or does the cost happen on the initial side when you say I want this option in the future?

Sean Cooper: 14:33

Yeah, it happens on the the initial,

Chris Holling: 14:36

okay?

Sean Cooper: 14:36

You have to actually buy the option from me. So we're talking probably in that scenario, maybe you paid a you know, a buck a share,

Chris Holling: 14:45

right.

Sean Cooper: 14:46

So, typical options contracts are 100 shares. So, you honestly you probably paid like 20 bucks,

Chris Holling: 14:53

okay

Sean Cooper: 14:54

to to control that option to buy. And so, for 20 bucks If you had the option to buy 100 shares from me at $50 per share,

Chris Holling: 15:04

okay,

Sean Cooper: 15:04

which was, what five grand worth of the stock? So? Yeah, and then in our scenario, if it went to 60, you could have sold for six, you make $1,000. But you only paid 20 for the option itself. Okay, so But in that scenario I was obligated to

Chris Holling: 15:21

Okay? sell to you, if you chose to execute, you were not obligated to actually execute the option. Now, the way the markets set up if there was, you know, profit on your end, even if you've had forgotten about it, most, most exchanges will automatically execute it at the expiration date on your behalf if there was profit to be had. So if it had gone up to say, you know, $51 a share, it would probably, it would most likely automatically just execute the option for you. And you get your dollar a share, and basically breakeven in that scenario. But you do a little more than breakeven? Sure,

Sean Cooper: 16:06

you get about 80 bucks, I guess. But anyway, conversely, so with a putt, if I sell you a putt, I'm selling you the option to sell to me.

Chris Holling: 16:22

Right?

Sean Cooper: 16:23

Is that convoluted enough?

Chris Holling: 16:25

Perpetually, but I mean,

Sean Cooper: 16:27

Ok, so, so more more often than not, you're looking at it from the standpoint of the person buying the putt. So if I bought a putt, I am buying the option to sell.

Chris Holling: 16:37

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 16:40

So I might buy the option to sell because I wanted to hedge against the the market going down. So for example, in our $50 example, you know, I might buy an up by a put at, say$48. So it's less than the current price. But if the market does poorly, and my share price goes down to $40 per share, then I can execute my option to sell at 48.

Chris Holling: 17:13

Okay,

Sean Cooper: 17:14

okay, so if I'm selling someone, a put, I'm selling them the option to sell to me, which would mean I'm obligated to buy if they choose to, to execute. So as opposed to being obligated to sell so you can be the buyer of a call or put and you can be the seller of a call or put any of that you need me to clear up or provide examples on

Chris Holling: 17:40

no, I guess not, I guess maybe where I'm trying to, to figure that all out in my head is that may I don't even have a good way to describe this. Because then when you exist as the buyer or seller, then you're you're going to be transitioning into it again, later on. And but I guess it's not like you're gonna immediately? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I think I'm just trying to take the whole picture in as a whole because it's just several moving parts of like, this will happen in the future, but only if you buy the option but only if you choose to after you buy the option and I'm I'm just I'm following I think

Sean Cooper: 18:21

right right. So where the future contract is is this is going to happen there is going to be some exchange some of either the commodity and value for the commodity or there's just going to be a cash settlement. Whereas with the option, there's not necessarily going to be any exchange that occurs unless it unless the option is executed. The initial exchange is the purchase or sale of the option itself.

Chris Holling: 18:51

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 18:52

So you pay a small premium for the option to buy or sell. And then down the road if it's profitable to do so, you execute that option to buy or sell or on the other side of the coin you can be the seller of the option to buy or sell as opposed to the buyer. So the the buyer of a call is bullish on the market. The seller is bearish. The buyer of a put is bearish and the seller of a put is bullish. I think I said that right.

Chris Holling: 19:41

I think so. Because the bullish is up, bearish is down like the bullish of a horn sweeping up and a bearish of a claw coming down is how I Remember from our previous endeavors, right?

Sean Cooper: 19:58

Right. So even though this is More complicated to understand, per se, and gets even more complicated if you get into some of the interesting trading strategies behind it,

Chris Holling: 20:08

right.

Sean Cooper: 20:10

This is actually the most commonly traded for most investors is options, not futures and forwards,

Chris Holling: 20:18

okay.

Sean Cooper: 20:18

So, now futures are volume wise futures are traded more actively because, you know, hedge funds and the like are are trading them in massive quantities, whereas options are typically not traded in such massive quantities per se.

Chris Holling: 20:39

So, because futures are more commonly happening in in volume is that because of what you're describing, like different hedge funds account and whatnot or

Sean Cooper: 20:49

right, the account size is much larger. In fact, the futures market is larger than the market for the underlying commodities.

Chris Holling: 20:59

And what about for you? Where do you tend to do a majority of your stuff? Do you do a lot of options? Do you tend to get involved in a lot of futures? Just you personally or

Sean Cooper: 21:08

me? Personally, I trade options. However, I do utilize strategies that trade futures.

Chris Holling: 21:19

Okay,

Sean Cooper: 21:20

so since I'm not trading them directly, I still like them to be in a portfolio. For various reasons. We talked about managed futures in our prior episode on alternatives. So that's where, where that fits in.

Chris Holling: 21:33

Okay,

Sean Cooper: 21:34

but I'm not doing the trading myself, I'm outsourcing that basically to a mutual fund or a hedge fund.

Chris Holling: 21:41

Okay.

Sean Cooper: 21:42

Yep. So specifically where I trade options, the most would be covered calls. So we've talked a little bit about this previously, but a covered call. So there's, obviously calls and puts but a covered call would be where you actually own the underlying so if I'm selling a call, so I sell you the option to buy from me

Chris Holling: 22:08

Right

Sean Cooper: 22:08

a covered call would be where I already own the underlying stock. So I already own it, I sell you the option to buy from me, I'm covered because I already have the stock, I don't have to, you know, if you decide to execute your option to buy, I have the stock, I can just give it to you at the sale price, we're good to go. A naked call would be I sell you that call the option to buy from me, but I don't actually have the underlying stock. That would be a naked call selling a naked call,

Chris Holling: 22:39

because you would have it attached elsewhere for you to make that purchase. Or it's just, that's just

Sean Cooper: 22:48

literally if you if you decide if you decide to execute your option to buy from me,

Chris Holling: 22:54

right,

Sean Cooper: 22:55

I would the exchange would instantly have to go out and buy this underlying stock on my behalf so that I could then sell it to you. Which most likely would result in me taking a loss of some sort.

Chris Holling: 23:10

Gotcha. And is that something that you have to like look for? Or is that a is that part of a discussion that you have, like, hey, I can see this option, but it's a it's a covered call? Or it's not? Or what?

Sean Cooper: 23:21

When you buy a call, you don't know if it's covered or naked?

Chris Holling: 23:25

Oh, okay.

Sean Cooper: 23:26

It doesn't matter the the exchange is going to automatically make it happen.

Chris Holling: 23:30

Okay,

Sean Cooper: 23:31

so yeah. The, but the risk in that that naked call is on the the seller in that scenario,

Chris Holling: 23:41

okay, that makes sense

Sean Cooper: 23:42

Because, yeah, if, if the markets gone way up, they're on the hook to buy that, that stock so that they can actually then sell it to you with that most likely much lower price that you've agreed to.

Chris Holling: 23:54

Got it. Okay.

Sean Cooper: 23:57

So that's why the covered call is a much safer play. In fact, selling covered calls creates a nice stream of profit from the sale of the call, plus you sell them out of the money meaning that if if they're going to be executed, at least I do, you sell them out of the money so that if they are executed, in addition to taking the profit from the the premium from selling the call in the first place, you also make a little bit more money on the underlying stock when you sell it too, maybe not as much as what the market has gone to. But you've still made additional money as well. And typically what I found just out of market volatility, you can still get back in wherever you sold out if you really want to. So

Chris Holling: 24:39

Gotcha.

Sean Cooper: 24:41

Those that little profit from the premium can help buoy returns a little bit in down markets and add a little bit especially in a flat market. It doesn't add as much in a bull market because most likely you're going to be the option is going to be executed, in which case you sell. And you hopefully can still keep pace with the bull market, but it depends on how things go.

Chris Holling: 25:09

Right? Okay.

Sean Cooper: 25:12

So yeah, so that's, that would be options calls and puts. option to buy. The call option to sell is the put and you can be a buyer or seller of either the last derivative I was going to talk about would be a swap, and derivative and swaps are actually on a completely different asset. So, futures forwards, typically we're dealing with commodities, options, most commonly are stocks. Swaps are actually interest rates. So for the most part, and so you're actually dealing with swapping out interest rate risk hedging interest rate, because that's what most, most derivatives are designed, or utilized as a hedge. So, for example, if you're repaying a loan for something, and it is tied to prime, so the prime rate or the interbank offer rate, the interest rate that you're paying is probably that that prime rate plus x plus two or something along those lines. So you have a variable rate, it's like an if you have like an arm on a mortgage, where you pay a fixed rate for like five years, and then after that it floats based on the LIBOR or prime, or you know, depending on where you're at plus a certain percentage. So as if interest rates go up, the interest that you're paying goes up, if they go down the interest that you're paying, that goes down. So if you want to take some of that risk off the table, some of the risk that the interest rates could go up, and that causes your payment to go up, you can actually do a swap where someone else you, you swap with someone else, and you pay them a fixed rate and most likely a slightly higher fixed rate, but they will end up paying you the variable rate. So you end up just if if the fixed rate is still higher than the variable, you pay them the difference, and if the variable rate ends up going higher than the fixed rate, they pay you the difference. So you're hedging that, that risk away.

Chris Holling: 27:35

Okay, so it's it's not just like the action of saying a refinance of any sort, like it's, I mean, like, I imagine taking a loan to a bank and going through the process of refinancing with them would be kind of like a, a small, more direct version of doing your own kind of swap. But you're saying that this exists as a I'm doing a swap option between interest rates, and then if if this variable rate fluctuates, then the payout lands somewhere? Is that what I'm understanding?

Sean Cooper: 28:08

Correct? Yeah. This typically isn't something done by your average person on a mortgage, we're typically talking about very large companies dealing with, you know, hundreds of millions or billions of dollars of loans that they are trying to hedge their rates. And no, it's not not the equivalent to a refinance. They're not actually refinancing anything. They're literally taking one payment and swapping it out for a different payment with a most likely a different company.

Chris Holling: 28:38

Gotcha. Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

Sean Cooper: 28:40

Yeah. And like I said, Yeah, most most of the time, you're dealing with some kind of variable rate and swapping it out for a fixed or, and swapping it out for a fixed or vice versa. Depending on what side of the coin you're on, if you think interest rates are going to go down, maybe you want to swap your fixed out for a variable.

Chris Holling: 29:01

And the swap is something that I've I've just never even heard of before. The other things I've at least heard of, and I can always understand a little bit better. But with the swap, it's, it's just something I haven't even come across. So is that the same process that you would that you would talk through a custodian to get access to a swap or what where do you find swaps anyways?

Sean Cooper: 29:20

Nah you're most likely dealing with a bank, some kind of large lender, large lender, custodians typically not going to be dealing with that.

Chris Holling: 29:28

Okay. Cool. That makes sense.

Sean Cooper: 29:33

Yep. That is the extent of what I was gonna plan on covering with derivatives. I guess I could I've mentioned a number of different trading strategies with options I mean, you've got spreads, straddles, iron condors, all sorts of different random trading strategies that you can employ with. I mentioned covered calls

Chris Holling: 29:57

man straddles. Iron condors bushel of corn

Sean Cooper: 30:03

They have some fun names,

Chris Holling: 30:05

this is a a heck of a day of visualizations,

Sean Cooper: 30:10

options traders, the really successful options traders will narrow in on one strategy and they get really, really good at it. And that's all they do. They don't mess around with other strategies as they go along. And that's just Yeah. So something something to look up, maybe something we'll talk about in the future, if somebody is interested, but Well, I guess I'll leave it at that for now.

Chris Holling: 30:36

We cool

Sean Cooper: 30:36

pique your interest.

Chris Holling: 30:37

Okay. Well, then derivative, you know, and I mean, I knew about some of these, like I was talking about, like, I feel like I was aware of an option. And maybe that's because we talked about it at some point in time, but I think this is a good in depth portion of of some of these things and some of these considerations.

Sean Cooper: 30:56

Good.

Chris Holling: 30:58

I like that? Okay?

Sean Cooper: 30:59

Yeah. So all those times that we've talked about derivatives in the past now. Now, people will actually know what we're talking about,

Chris Holling: 31:06

right?

Sean Cooper: 31:06

Maybe we should have put this a little earlier but, what the heck

Chris Holling: 31:10

woulda, coulda, shoulda. That's okay. At least at least now we know it's not whatever I was trying to describe at the start of this. if I knew I was gonna be that wrong, I would have gone down the road of like, oh, you know, a derivative is this, this process that you do when you're when you're at the circus, right? You you go and you get this the sack of derivatives and you go down the road? And you're like I would have I would have completely gone the other way with it. If I knew I was going to be that wrong. What do I know?

Sean Cooper: 31:46

Well, I feel like there was one that you did that with

Chris Holling: 31:49

a

Sean Cooper: 31:50

I can't remember which one it was

Chris Holling: 31:52

man, that was security analysis. Yes, I decided that there was a there was a you analyze the security company and and

Sean Cooper: 32:06

I liked that one though. It was creative.

Chris Holling: 32:08

Bowser shows up or something like that. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. But it clearly drained all my creative juices, because now I'm just flat wrong.

Sean Cooper: 32:17

The irony is I think you actually understood security analysis to a certain degree, it was just not necessarily something you were going to explain to someone else per se.

Chris Holling: 32:27

Well, now you're just giving me too much credit. Let's wrap it up

Sean Cooper: 32:34

Oh, yeah. Next season.

Chris Holling: 32:37

Next season, we should talk about next season next season. We are kind of we're kind of dipping back into insurance a little bit again. And

Sean Cooper: 32:49

Life insurance

Chris Holling: 32:50

life insurance specifically. It was it was something that we talked about where we said hey, we should touch on this. Oh, my we need to actually do two of these. Oh, wait, did did you? Did you want to do like actually digestible amounts? Or do you want to just absolutely hit one big long one I said I can't, I can't, Sean. I can't. So we're doing small dosages. And so we're hoping for the episodes to be a little bit shorter than we typically do so that you can take it as it comes in. It's not one big overloading thing. But it's it's kind of turned into I guess you could call it a bonus season, but it will be Season Five for us coming up next. And we're gonna be getting that out to just really just as soon as we can. I think we got a break happening in between a couple of seasons here and there, but we're gonna get on it. Is there anything else on it on the on the future season then you can think of

Sean Cooper: 33:47

no that sounds pretty good.

Chris Holling: 33:48

Okay, well good.

Sean Cooper: 33:50

Good summary

Chris Holling: 33:51

Good. I'm glad. Well, thank you everybody for coming back out enjoying the season four as we're rounding up on that. And then we're, you know, I keep saying that we're coming closer to the end. But we we kind of are we after season five that we have a very specific goal than we have season six and we have like, four or five episodes listed in there right now. And then the then the world is our burrito. Or chimichanga I like chimichangas actually

Sean Cooper: 34:22

Isn't the saying the world is our oyster.

Chris Holling: 34:24

Yeah, well, I don't listen to that. I think it was weird Al that gave me the world is our burrito. So I've stuck with it.

Sean Cooper: 34:29

I mean, I definitely prefer burritos over oysters.

Chris Holling: 34:32

I did have oysters the other day. It was delicious. Okay, see, now this is this is why we need to have a season that just has absolutely nothing to do with any of this. We'll talk about oysters and burritos an oyster burrito. Perhaps that'd be great.

Sean Cooper: 34:44

Didn't Phylecia start this on us the whole California burrito concept with french fries

Chris Holling: 34:48

Yeah, well, you know, what if somebody would if somebody would actually link to our page, a picture of a burrito? Then maybe

Sean Cooper: 34:55

That's right

Chris Holling: 34:56

maybe we'd talk about burritos more often

Sean Cooper: 34:57

both of us failed

Chris Holling: 34:59

Yeah, well You know, so did our followers failing. Okay, now I'm insulting our followers. I'm sorry I

Sean Cooper: 35:05

speaking of maybe you maybe you should post some of these on Facebook

Chris Holling: 35:12

I know.

Sean Cooper: 35:15

Anyway, thanks again.

Chris Holling: 35:18

Thanks. Thanks for joining us. Here at the truth about investing back to basics. My name is Chris Holling.

Sean Cooper: 35:24

And I'm Sean Cooper,

Chris Holling: 35:25

and we will catch you in the next season. Podcast disclaimer disclaimer. The disclaimer following this disclaimer is the disclaimer that is required for this podcast to be up and running and fully functioning. Moving forward. This is going to be the same disclaimer that you will hear in each one of our episodes. We hope you enjoy it just as much as we enjoyed making it. all content on this podcast and accompanying transcript is for informational purposes only opinions expressed herein by Sean Cooper are solely those of fit financial consulting LLC unless otherwise specifically cited. Chris Holling that's me is not affiliated with Fit financial consulting LLC nor do the views expressed by Chris Holling me again, represent the views of fit financial consulting, LLC. This podcast is intended to be used and it's entirety. Any other use beyond the author's intended distribution or copying of its contents of this podcast is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this podcast is intended as legal accounting or tax advice and is for informational purposes only. All information or ideas provided should be discussed in detail with an advisor, accountant or legal counsel prior to implementation. This podcast may refer to websites for the convenience of our users. Our firm has no control over the accuracy or content of these other websites. advisory services are offered through fit financial consulting, LLC, an investment advisory firm registered in the states of Washington and Colorado. The presence of this podcast on the internet shall not be directly or indirectly interpreted as a solicitation of investment advisory services to persons of another jurisdiction unless otherwise permitted by statute, follow up or individualized responses to consumers in a particular state by our firm in the rendering of personalized investment advice for compensation shall not be made without our first complying with jurisdiction requirements or pursuant an applicable state exemption for information concerning the status or disciplinary history of a broker dealer, investment advisor or other representatives. A consumer should contact their state securities administrator. Amen. You know, actually you want to know something real stupid. I was just thinking to myself just now. Oh, I just heard this funny joke. This morning. I should tell him that joke. That was pretty good. And then I realized the reason that I heard it this morning was I was editing our previous podcast it would have been the exact same

Sean Cooper: 38:21

It was one of your jokes

Chris Holling: 38:23

It was even one that I told like it was I like this.

Sean Cooper: 38:26

This is a great joke. I should totaly tell him.

Chris Holling: 38:29

I wonder. I wonder if he knows this joke

Sean Cooper: 38:31

Oh, wait I guess I already have

Chris Holling: 38:32

I was I was literally in the midst of editing that joke and I was like, what was that? Oh, that was that was pretty.

Sean Cooper: 38:40

Sounds like the joke's on you buddy.

Chris Holling: 38:44

Well said