Holy Hiatus Batman!
We have been gone for awhile and we didn't expect to be. Not only are we back, but we did something in the interim where we had another guest, Phylecia Jones! We can't say enough good things about Phylecia. She is a TEDx speaker, a budgeting machine, former Navy Scientist, and Founder of IFind You Close. She has a great personality and was able to ask us some interesting questions and we hope we brought the same.
This go around we talk about business budgeting, her line of work, different avenues of publicity and.... burritos. Welcome back! We hope you enjoy part 1 of 2 and we will see you before you know it!... Or hear you? Or... something.
Holy Hiatus Batman!
We have been gone for awhile and we didn't expect to be. Not only are we back, but we did something in the interim where we had another guest, Phylecia Jones! We can't say enough good things about Phylecia. She is a TEDx speaker, a budgeting machine, former Navy Scientist, and Founder of IFind You Close. She has a great personality and was able to ask us some interesting questions and we hope we brought the same.
This go around we talk about business budgeting, her line of work, different avenues of publicity and.... burritos. Welcome back! We hope you enjoy part 1 of 2 and we will see you before you know it!... Or hear you? Or... something.
Whatever,
Phylecia Jones:probably not what Sean wanted to talk about. So,
Chris Holling:you know, I don't care
Sean Cooper:that's just further proof that I'm not the entertaining one of this group
Chris Holling:I don't care what Sean want's like, he's, he's got this agenda. Like, let's talk about this and this makes sense. And I go Yeah, you got it, dude. And then I we got we got dad jokes there's I need to do some dad jokes in here somewhere
Phylecia Jones:dad jokes. Wow.
Chris Holling:That's like par for the course. Actually.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, I don't have any of those.
Chris Holling:Yeah, well,
Sean Cooper:yeah, that's how we started out a lot of them. Then I sit here staring blankly at the microphone after he shares them.
Chris Holling:Yes, that's accurate. But you know, plot twist. That's what he was gonna do. Anyway. So
Phylecia Jones:I mean, talk about the the financial advice around cuffing season.
Chris Holling:Jeez. That's a. You know? I? I don't know. No, I'm just babbling. Okay, hold on. Let's find that thing. Got. Sean already throws me off enough. Now I have some other squirrel in here. How do you
Phylecia Jones:gotta be professional?
Chris Holling:No, would, Yes. Okay, so professionally. How do you stop a dog from barking in the back of a car?
Phylecia Jones:I have no idea.
Chris Holling:You put him in the front.
Sean Cooper:really helpful because now he's barking in the front of the car.
Phylecia Jones:I got one for you.
Chris Holling:Oh, you have one for me. I I don't know
Phylecia Jones:got one. I got one for you. What do you call a reath full of $100 bills? Areatha Franklin
Chris Holling:Sean why can't you be funny like that?
Sean Cooper:Because that's why you guys are here. I'm just a numbers guy. I know my role
Chris Holling:What else have I got in here? Yesterday I gave up my seat on the bus for a blind person. Today I lost my job as a bus driver.
Phylecia Jones:Oh my gosh, Have y'all seen a new movie constipation?
Chris Holling:No,
Sean Cooper:no,
Phylecia Jones:don't worry. It's not out yet.
Chris Holling:Oh my god. I you know, it doesn't even matter cuz I don't think I'd even give a crap about it anyway.
Phylecia Jones:I think this is the entire show. This is good.
Chris Holling:Thanks for joining us this this solid no
Sean Cooper:Introduce the show
Chris Holling:this Well, this is this is legit. What happens we do this for a minute and then eventually I wish we could have her introduced. I'm also all over the place. So I went to bed two last night
Phylecia Jones:partying?
Chris Holling:and no, I was at the station.
Sean Cooper:Firefighter
Phylecia Jones:Station? Oh, you're a firefighter.
Chris Holling:I'm a firefighter.
Phylecia Jones:Oh, look at you. You do calendars and stuff?
Chris Holling:You know I I'm not going to privy that information to the entire World.
Phylecia Jones:I have a calendar.
Chris Holling:Like that's weird. I've got your calendar right here. No, so by trade, firefighter paramedic and I you know what I did? Okay. The first part is totally my fault. We watched we were trying to watch a movie while we were waiting for calls last night and then during the movie, I fell asleep for like an hour because we had a lul and it was great. But then I woke up and I had taken an hour nap. And so then I just couldn't fall back asleep. And so then I crashed at like two but then we got a call at about four o'clock this morning and we delivered a baby so
Phylecia Jones:Wow, look at you
Chris Holling:that took up the rest of my shift. I know
Phylecia Jones:Look at you, bringing life into the world.
Chris Holling:Yeah, there was there was this moment where after everything had calmed and settled and I walked out of the hospital you heard this? Naheeahnah.
Phylecia Jones:Oh cool. What did you do last night Sean
Chris Holling:Sean
Sean Cooper:I slept
Phylecia Jones:see what I have to deal with? lazy just regular people.
Sean Cooper:That's right.
Chris Holling:No it was it was it was cool. That was a my fourth that I've delivered but it was the first one I've delivered in the back of an ambulance so that was a new one for me. I've always done it the house. We we tried to drive to the hospital fast and it didn't work.
Phylecia Jones:Life Bringer and calendar person look at you.
Chris Holling:Allegedly.
Phylecia Jones:Oh no. So fancy.
Chris Holling:But that's why I'm artificially stimulated. At the moment caffeine. Redbull. We're not sponsored by Redbull All right, fine. Well, so the good news is, is we don't have a bad. We don't have a plan. The bad news is we don't we don't have a plan. So,
Phylecia Jones:okay.
Chris Holling:We could we could just start this off and let's see where the wind blows us. Yeah. Yeah, everybody.
Sean Cooper:Yeah.
Phylecia Jones:Cool with me. I'm just the guest.
Chris Holling:Okay, well, guest Are you gonna? Are you gonna introduce us? Oh, I'd be so pleased, if you like knew how to introduce us like, because then you'd be like a super fan.
Phylecia Jones:You can send me the thing and I can read it.
Chris Holling:There's no thing.
Phylecia Jones:I don't even do I own introduction.
Chris Holling:All right, well, I guess I'll do it, because I tend to do it. Well. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of the truth about investing. Back to Basics. My name is Chris Holling.
Sean Cooper:And I'm Sean Cooper. And today I'm taking this one.
Chris Holling:Wow.
Sean Cooper:That's right.
Chris Holling:You could have at least warned me.
Sean Cooper:Well, nope just going to talk over you
Chris Holling:That's insulting.
Sean Cooper:just going to steal it.
Chris Holling:Don't mind me, I'll sit. I'll sit over here. Don't worry about me. Hope you thing goes well Sean
Sean Cooper:that's right. Have fun. See you later. today. Yeah, that's right. Today, we have a special guest Phylecia Jones.
Chris Holling:Hi
Sean Cooper:Hi Chris.
Chris Holling:Don't mind me
Sean Cooper:That's right. So Phylecia is actually the lead researcher and founder of I find you close, which I'll have her talk about a little bit later. When Phylecia and I first met. She was actually the founder of Keep Up with Mrs. Jones.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah,
Sean Cooper:as a budgetologist. Which is why we we synced right away because, you know, budgeting and numbers and
Chris Holling:nerds.
Sean Cooper:Yes.
Chris Holling:I don't geek out about budgeting at all.
Sean Cooper:I know. But she she is the nerd that can also be entertaining. And I that's where I fall flat. So
Chris Holling:your words, not mine.
Sean Cooper:But at this point is she, you know, has been an international speaker been on TEDx a couple different times. And that's why we have her on today is for both those things. First off to hopefully tell us a little bit about or a lot a bit about budgeting for businesses. And because that's where where we kind of started our relationship is she teaches business owners how to pay themselves first. And then hopefully she can teach us a little bit about public speaking and, and that sort of thing for those who are interested as well. And show us a thing or two about how much we're doing wrong here. So,
Chris Holling:Sean,
Sean Cooper:yeah,
Chris Holling:you told me that you were bringing on a guest not somebody that it's like actually established in a realm like I was I was hoping this is like a neighbor's like yeah, they like numbers and like, cool. I'm not intimidated. And here we are, like,
Phylecia Jones:no need to be intimidated.
Sean Cooper:newsflash, you should be
Phylecia Jones:I was only on national television giving Money Advice.
Chris Holling:Well Good. Yes. So with the I see how I'm forming my thoughts as I speak. It's a talent
Phylecia Jones:It's a skill.
Sean Cooper:Actually, Chris, is really good with the improv since he's done quite a few different comedy shows he and my wife Anastasia we're both with Adams mMstery Playhouse right doing Y
Chris Holling:Yes,
Sean Cooper:Murder mystery dinners mostly improv
Chris Holling:Yes.
Sean Cooper:Those are a good time?
Chris Holling:Yes.
Phylecia Jones:Wow, I just keep learning more about you you help deliver babies you do calendars. You do in improve, see
Chris Holling:it's no big deal. And just, you know, just got to get to get out there and do God's work sometimes it's hard. Yeah. Well, look, here's here's the deal. I'm actually legitimately I'm excited to have you on here because the we do have like a loose ish wet, wet weapons plan. Where you pull out the big guns God I need sleep with an episode plan. And normally we at least have a topic and the only topic was your name in here, somewhere in there. So we do kind of have free rein with this.
Sean Cooper:Business budgeting was the the Oh arching concept for
Chris Holling:Yeah,
Sean Cooper:For Phylecia here since she is our expert of the group when it comes to a business budgeting
Chris Holling:well and and also full circle for for, you know what we say all three people listening to us that we originally were going to create this this is this is sort of a bonus episode because we've we've wrapped up season three and this is season three, surprise. And that's because we wanted to do a form of a q&a type thing. And when you were talking to Sean about like, Hey, can you take some time and adjust? adjust address? having a stroke? Apparently, I'm addressing what do you do about budgeting for business? And Sean said we should we should talk about that, because we apparently just kind of glazed over it. I said, Yeah, and I know nothing about it. And then we decided to just have you on and then and then that's that's where we're at. So this, this is our q&a day where you are the Q and the A, which is kind of how I like to operate. You know, like I'm talking to somebody, I'm like, Hey, how are you? Because I'm great. You know, gonna answer my own questions? And so I'm excited.
Phylecia Jones:Okay, well, I'm here any questions you have? So let me know where we're going.
Chris Holling:Okay, cool.
Phylecia Jones:Excited.
Chris Holling:So we have this, this might be putting you on the spot. And if it's if it's too on the spot, I'll delete it. But have you listened to any of our personal finance budgeting thing like the stretch with Jarmar that we were referencing earlier? Have you listened to that at all by chance?
Phylecia Jones:I listened to the shows on inflation.
Chris Holling:Okay, okay. That's fair.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah.
Sean Cooper:That was a fun one, I enjoyed that one.
Chris Holling:The reason I was curious about Yeah, that was that was good. And maybe
Sean Cooper:what did you think? I mean, I can talk all day about what I think about us. But
Chris Holling:Me too, mainly what I think about me, but
Phylecia Jones:it was a good show. It was a good show. Because I was just curious, because you know, everything is going on in the world. And they were screaming about inflation. And then that got me thinking about savings. And should I invest it all of that kind of stuff. So it made it's it was a dinner conversation at home.
Chris Holling:God. She just like described our whole second seasons. Great.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah.
Chris Holling:I Like that.
Phylecia Jones:I loved it.
Chris Holling:Cool. No, I'm glad the reason I was curious about that was because I I kind of wondered, for my sake, because my realm is is the the personal finance, personal home budgeting and kind of making your paycheck work and how to how to get your stuff straight in order to invest. And then once you get the investing stuff figured out, then I go talk to Sean. And I was curious, where were some of those common grounds sat between a personal finance budget versus a business budget, because I've built two, two base bids, business budgets for somebody that was starting out for a business, and I really just treated it as a lot of my my own personal finance approaches, which I'm sure there's a better way to go about doing it than I was. But I was curious, where where some of those familiarities were and, and stuff. How's that for a description? stuff?
Phylecia Jones:Perfect.
Chris Holling:Appreciate that.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah. Well, that's a good, that's actually a really good question. Because my approach when I first started off, doing money coaching and talking to business owners about budgeting, it was really to like solo business owners because everybody's walking this very thin line of personal and business finances, and I kind of do exactly the same way you were doing. The only difference when you are a business owner, especially a solo business owner you're starting out is you don't know where the income is coming from. And that's probably the difference with personal finance, if we have jobs, if we have jobs, we kind of know that there is going to be some money coming in. But with the business side, you still have to generate that money and you got to figure that out and that's why it goes back and forth. So much between how much you're spending how much is coming in and you have to do the work to make sure money is coming in. So that so I don't treat it differently. It's just we just have that unknown factor sometimes when it when it comes to being a business owner. And that's the income part.
Chris Holling:Okay. And that makes sense. And I this this may be what you're saying to me but part of the the way that I really tried to operate both but mainly on a personal finance side to because it was a huge goal for me that really changed a lot for me and I think works well for business comes on the front of operating. Essentially a month ahead is what we try to treat it as Where? So for instance, this month, I still need to do the numbers for what is it June? See, I don't even know what month it is. So in June I, I sit down and I evaluate, okay, well, how much did I make in May, and then that's the money that I use for June because then it's, it's never money that hasn't already been acquired, I'm not expecting it to show up in this next paycheck, even though, through the career that I have, I get a pretty regular paycheck. I'm fortunate to have that security. But it's important to have that to me, in case there's a fluctuation or especially to somebody that might be an artist, a small business owner, a, somebody that's on commission or a variation there, because then they can go, what did I make in May, and you have feast and famines type of thing. And so that, that, to me, is kind of how I built those previous business plans that I've done before, which kind of sounds like, that's what you're talking about is that you, you need to organize knowing where that income is, is coming from, and then once you do, then you can operate from there,
Phylecia Jones:you will Yes, you're going to do that. But also remember, with a business, you are operating in risk as well, because you have to take that bigger step to you know, increase that marketing budget, and what is the return on investment for all of this other work, you know, in hopes that it brings in income. And when it does come to business? Yes, you can operate one month in advance, especially after you know, a pandemic year, a lot of people had to go back to operating probably just one month out or a couple of months. But the other thing is you still want to do a little bit of forecasting for you know, three and six months just to see what's going to be happening with your income and all of this other energy that you need to put around the business side. But I do like that I do. Like yesterday was June 1, I go back and look at all of what happened in May how much money I spent, you know how much money came in. And then that helps me to create the goals for what I need to do in June as well. So you're kind of just going back and forth. And just operating as a CFO on on every level. And for for the most part, you're doing it almost every week. And that's one thing you can do with personal finances, you can kind of do it on a monthly basis. But sometimes with business, you may have to get in there every week to see what is going on.
Chris Holling:Okay, yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. That's, uh, that's something that I was able to kind of see. Really, it took about coming up on a year that I was operating with the very first business budget that I built, where after that course of the year, because it's it was retail, essentially, then we were able to see, okay, well, Christmas time is coming up. And we know that we do well during these months. And then we have this slow time in the summer and then in this stretch. And and that's back when I was still in Texas at the time, because you know, ain't nobody walking outside in Texas, in June to go walk the street markets. And so we were able to kind of see that as since now we've seen what what the average expenses are, since now we know where where the bulk of these things are gonna come from, then we can kind of operate as a, hey, we're we've got this coming up, we know that the summer tends to be a little slower, we can try to set aside X amount or we can try to take care of some extra expenses so that they're not as daunting when that time rolls around. With that, that future forecasting. Really, I think the three to six month out is a good estimate of that. I think that's a that's a great point.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, we have to kind of always stay ahead of the game when it comes to running this business and especially coming out of out of the pandemic year for people who took a few of those, you know, the EIDL loans and PPP loans. And if you got the pandemic unemployment, you pretty much had to go down to managing your finances monthly. I mean, sorry, weekly, because you had to report it to someone. So, you know, things got a little bit more real for a lot of business owners. And you know, in the beautiful world, we're always on top of it. But the reality is a lot of business owners are just trying to get by and kind of don't pay attention to their money as often as they should. which is unfortunate.
Chris Holling:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that there, there's a lot of cases where many people are guilty of that. And that's, that's that's kind of the theme. I think we've picked up over over over the last year. Sean, is that its
Sean Cooper:go ahead. You were going to summarize your theme.
Chris Holling:Yeah, yeah. My life is just one big summary. It's fine. No, yeah. The, the theme that I think we've kind of picked up on has been, you know, do do you do you and do what works best for you. And here Here are the tools that we have available to you to to be able to operate on those things and, and do whatever it is that's important to you. So long as You're aware of what's happening so long as you're aware of things that are going to be upcoming. And when you're referencing those upcoming changes and expenses, and even when you're trying to get by, it's, it's okay to have those times where you're just really hanging on for dear life and kind of white knuckling it. But as long as you're aware that that's what's happening and what trajectory you have, in order to kind of adjust that rather than just have that be the new norm for you, I think is, is important.
Phylecia Jones:I agree with you, I can, but I also disagree. After last year, I don't think a lot of us could, was in a position two Do you know, do you because it's just got very real for a lot of business owners. And, and it was, um, it got, I guess, it got very serious where, okay, you couldn't just let your business finances, you know, just fly to the wind. And just, you know, and be aware, so this was, I actually think it was a good year for some businesses, because this was the first time that they actually probably sat down and had to do the projections, the forecasting, making those hard decisions on hiring, firing, cutting expenses, whereas in, you know, pre, you know, historic days, you know, 2019, we could, you know, as long as the income was coming in, we can kind of just figure it out, but, and I know, a lot of businesses are still still struggling, coming out of out of last year, but hopefully everybody is seeing what they can do, and maybe taking a few more risk so that we can bring in a little bit more income, you know, before the end of the year.
Chris Holling:Yeah, absolutely. I could definitely see that.
Sean Cooper:So what are some of the steps that you recommend business owners take, as they, you know, if it's their first look at trying to take control of their finances, their business finances?
Phylecia Jones:Okay, so when it comes to the business finances, you, you really do have to put on that CFO hat and stay on top of it. I say the first thing with brand new businesses, and it really depends on where you are, is put it on the calendar, when you're going to manage your money. That's the first thing because a lot of us, we just kind of Oh, just do it on a Sunday night. And then you get very frustrated, you know, looking at everything, I always recommend looking at your numbers on the first and the 15th of each month. And I always say do it before 6am and 9am. And the reason why is because you can actually do something about your numbers between 6am and 9am. In the morning, if you're seeing that you don't have enough income coming in and not enough revenue, you can go out there and start making some sales calls. Or you can make some adjustment adjustments and negotiations with people. I tell people never to do money after six o'clock. Because usually we're either tipsy hangry, hungry, mad at somebody. So just don't do numbers at nighttime. Yeah, and don't do it at 10 o'clock. Because then you know, if you're in business with somebody or with your with a spouse or partner, that's when you start calling people at 10 o'clock, like, Hey, did you spend like $5 on something and they're like, What are you talking about. And next thing, you know, everything blows up. So I always recommend do your numbers on the first and 15th of each month. And give yourself one hour, you don't have to solve all the world's problems, but you do need to be aware of what's going on. And then the second thing is just really pay attention to your expenses, you need to know how much is going out because it's so easy to get caught up in all these monthly expenses and all these things and subscriptions that we sign up for to help us grow our business. And so we need to pay attention to that. And then of course, with any business, you have to figure out how you're going to generate revenue on a regular basis each month.
Sean Cooper:Do you find that the fixed expenses or the variable expenses tend to be more of the issue for most businesses?
Phylecia Jones:Oh, gosh, it's
Sean Cooper:you reference like those monthly subscriptions adding up?
Phylecia Jones:Yeah,
Sean Cooper:Which I categorize as fixed, but not necessarily necessary. So
Phylecia Jones:that it but you brought up something good, you have to determine what is necessary for your business. Because when we're new in business, everything seems necessary. You know, like we need Canva we need MailChimp, we need all these different things because they're necessary. But over time, it'll it'll play out what what we're actually using and who we're using. So I actually think those variable and fixed expenses are is going to take a while to figure out which ones need to stay and which ones need to go. For me like my fixed expenses are the labor because I can't do anything without them. So that's a big time, fixed expense for me, and then I've gotten it down to a point where I know exactly what I need to run this business and then some of the other things I can let go at any time and it won't hurt me. So I think it all depends on where you are in business. And unfortunately, as business owners, we do have shiny object syndrome. And when we see something's like, Ooh, it's gonna make me a million dollars, you know, and then we tend to buy it, or we buy these courses, all these things. So I think sometimes we have to kind of manage all of that at the same time.
Sean Cooper:Right? Because anything that goes out the door.
Chris Holling:I think she's taking a jab at me, Sean, I think that was a personal attack on me.
Phylecia Jones:No, no, of course not.
Chris Holling:This guy looks like somebody that would be caught by something shiny.
Sean Cooper:Always. No, I was gonna, I was gonna say, though, shoot, now I lost my train, jeez Chris
Chris Holling:Two hits, I hit you, you hit the floor.
Phylecia Jones:We talked about variable and fixed expenses?
Sean Cooper:Oh, no, I was gonna say that. You know, you were talking about kind of that balance. And you're talking about things that are investments in the business that have that potential ROI, or the return on investment. But on the flip side of that, anything that you pay out, is $1, that you cannot pay yourself.
Phylecia Jones:Exactly. And that's where everything that's going out is not $1 toward you. So you got to work that in as well into that budget of what's going out. And this is where it gets so stressful being a business owner is that you still have to figure out what their revenue is, because that's gonna dictate just about everything, that's gonna, that's going to happen. So what happens when we do our budgets, a lot of time when we are in this mode of just, let's build, let's build, let's build, and let's do all the things that will make us a million dollars in three in 30 seconds. Sometimes we forget that we might have personal finances at home. So usually, there's either a partner or a spouse, or rent a dog or cat that needs to be fed. So we have to remember to do that at the same time. So I always recommend making sure we have that line item where we pay ourselves. Even if it's just $5. You have to get used to it, you know, being auto drafted out of your business bank account, and into your personal account so that you this is not a foreign concept to you about paying yourself on a regular basis, because I'm pretty certain you still have rent to pay. And you typically Shouldn't you shouldn't pull that out of the business to pay for all of that stuff.
Chris Holling:Yeah,
Sean Cooper:right.
Chris Holling:Absolutely.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, you shouldn't. But the reality is, I know how a lot of people manage business.
Chris Holling:Right? Right. Absolutely. I get that. I had a thought and then I saw something shiny. You know, I don't know. I'm
Phylecia Jones:just ruining thoughts today.
Sean Cooper:Wondering what would you say are some of the other most common mistakes, if you will, that you see business owners making with their, their, their business, budgeting their business finances,
Phylecia Jones:the biggest mistake is just not paying attention to it. And that's where we always get in trouble by not paying attention, we assume our, if we have hired a bookkeeper, we assume they know what's going on, or we assume the accountant will fix it. And I've tried to tell people, you know, accounting and bookkeeping are two completely different things, there needs to be somebody in the middle, that's actually, you know, orchestrating what is happening with all of all of these finances. So the biggest thing is, a lot of us just don't pay attention enough to what's going on. And the other is, we are only depending on what's coming in. And the way a lot of businesses operate is well, I got a client, I just got $5,000 for them. So now I have $5,000 to spend. And it's just you know, and we forget that, you know, once we get a client$5,000 we still have cost of goods, you know, all of those other things that go out before we can start paying other expenses. And you know, and it may never even turn into profit. And I and I have seen that a lot over the last few years where people will think well, all I need is a $10,000 client and I can just go pay for this and it's like yeah, it doesn't really work that way.
Chris Holling:No, I think that's a good point. Because it's a to me on on the personal side, because that's that's where I'm able to relate these things is that if you are able to to allocate, okay, well this this is going towards like, what's a good example? You are you're getting a standard employee w two salary that's coming to you but in order to get to that job, you're having to pay for the fuel. The car insurance the car, just like just the transport to get there, because that's the way that your job is set up. And if you take that paycheck, and it's going to things that aren't those things, then you you aren't going to be able to perpetuate maintaining that income that's going to come your way. And, and to me it, it operates the same way where you're making sure to have the cost of goods, you're having all these expenses handled. And then once Once that is complete, and the costs of labor, the cost of goods, the cost of maybe even customer acquisition to get to
Phylecia Jones:Yeah,
Chris Holling:but however you want to look at those things. Once those are paid for them. That's literally your your profit margin. And then that's, that's where you can go Okay, am I going to reinvest this? Am I going to pay myself? Am I going to do a combination of those things? And I, I think that's a that's a great point.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah.
Chris Holling:Sean, what's a what's a business thing that you've learned the hard way? Like, you know, I get that she's the fancy guest here. And I've told her that 5000 times, but I'm sure you
Phylecia Jones:You can say it more. I'm okay with that
Chris Holling:5001 times. Hey guest your, you know, you're so great. I just
Phylecia Jones:I appreciate you
Chris Holling:wouldn't even wouldn't even know what to do with myself. If you weren't, you weren't here with us. Okay, that's Sean. So what, what's what's, uh, what's something that you came across that you weren't expecting? I'm curious about this more personally, than anything else, because I know you're just such a calculated person that I know, you're very likely to, to look ahead and go, these are a bunch of things I was expecting to see. But I can't imagine you actually calculated for all of them. But you know, maybe you're just this insane human being that did just that. Is there anything that surprised you as you were kind of getting your business
Sean Cooper:Um, I don't know that I would say something that started? surprised me, I would say that if I had to do it all over again, or had the opportunity to do it all over again, there were things that I definitely would have done differently. And it kind of stems goes back to what I was bringing up with Phylecia there earlier. And that is that balance between investing in the business and being able to pay yourself and that sort of thing. So when I started, I set aside a large chunk of change to to be able to ride through quite a few years of basically not paying myself and having that expectation upfront. And what I would have done differently is I would have set aside a large piece of that to actually invest in the business. So as opposed to being super ultra frugal with the business and trying to make it grow itself organically, I would have invested a lot more into different methods for helping it grow. And that goes back to marketing. But in all honesty, I still struggle with that because I really hate a lot of aspects of marketing. Largely. One of the biggest my biggest encumbrances, if you will, is marketing. Most marketing people don't speak in my language. They they talk about, yes, how much it's going to cost. And they talk a big game about how much how many people you're going to get responses from, but very few of them can actually give you concrete ROI information upfront, even from a historical standpoint, for similar businesses, and that drives me crazy. So I'm very reluctant to invest in something like that, even though that's what I needed. And I don't know that I would have gone about it in the traditional way, I think I would have sought help in terms of purchasing a practice and hiring other advisors much earlier is the biggest difference, I would have changed. So big, big lump sum investments that could have paid out much earlier. As opposed to just me trying to go about everything on my own.
Chris Holling:I thought you were gonna say you're gonna work on your advertisement by standing outside with like one of those hot dog costumes and like, hey, this way
Sean Cooper:I did try
Chris Holling:Don't be a wiener
Sean Cooper:a variety of different marketing things, you know, the showing up on different, you know, magazines or things in stores and stuff like that. And honestly, it was most of what I tried there was garbage. even tried the little bit of marketing spend through like your Facebook or Google and I didn't see much practical return on investment there either. But again, that all part of that depends on your business and how you go about it. That's just been my experience so
Phylecia Jones:well, you know, but that's the hard part about running the business. And, you know, the personal finance knowledge that we have is very useful for running a business. But we have to always put in that risk factor to what are you willing to do so that you can generate leads. And I think a lot of us, I think the biggest thing I didn't realize starting a business generating leads is basically what I need to be doing all the time. So how do you, you know, very logical brain, I don't want to spend a lot of money because I want to see that exact return on investment. Because I don't have a lot of money to spend, but you kind of learn, you kind of do need to spend this money. And that's where we get into this little thing with, with business, with business, finances, and I love using all of the methods around personal finance on business, but we have to always account for that risk factor of is, you know, what are we doing? And is it worth the money to spend it so that we can grow is always a hard one. And you always like, it's like 2020 vision, like, Oh, I guess I you know, should have just thrown money at it because it might have worked, who knows?
Sean Cooper:Right? Right,
Chris Holling:I get that entirely. And then that's, that's kind of, we insert episode x here that we talked about it. But we had that time, when we were talking about taking the like, English man, we had, we had a time that we were talking about how one of the things that that I tried to do that, to me, is just how I'm connecting it. But where I'm setting a certain amount of side per month. That is my, my general wealth building cap category. That's, as we talked about, in the episode, specifically, it was more of a, the example I gave was kind of a venture capitalist side, when we were talking about that buddy of mine, that one time, you know, it's fine just to go listen to the episode, it's fine. And that, to me sits into the same category where it's this, this is going towards a purpose, this money is going towards the building of this wealth, and it you're going to miss every shot you don't take. So it's it's definitely worth taking those steps and utilizing it for that and being okay, with the fact that while it's calculated, and you're making the best choice that you think you can, that if there is a lower return on investment than you expected to see, then you're kind of okay with taking that money and, and incorporating it into that risk in order to try and try and reap some of the benefits from it rather than just clinging on to your money as tight as you can, because you're concerned about just losing it outright.
Sean Cooper:So along those lines, Phylecia, have you seen is that purely trial and error in your experience? Or are there some kind of universal areas that people find successful when it comes to that ROI and, you know, marketing or growing the business?
Phylecia Jones:I will say marketing is not my genius, zone, I do think you have to do a little bit of trial and error. And there are some tried and true things that have always worked. You know, your sales calls, I mean, everybody hates them, but it actually does work. So we know those tried and true things. And a lot of it does come down to our energy, how much we're willing to put ourselves out there. Because a lot of us were just too scared, a lot of us don't like rejection. And that's where we get. That's where we get in trouble in business. And so we try some of these other methods. And we have to just know that sometimes what works for one person may not necessarily work for you. But at the same time, you better figure out something otherwise, you're just bleeding money on a regular basis with this business. And I do think people should try quite a few things. And, you know, one of the things that I did was I actually got out on stage and started speaking, because I didn't know how to do all of the Facebook ads and all that other stuff and, and sales calls, I suck at sales call. So I needed a different way to convert people. And so I started just getting on stage and marketing. I tried the podcast thing. I can't say the podcast was like the best thing for me. But I do think you have to just put a lot of energy into all of these things that you're going to try. But you also got to give it time. And that's where we kind of hurt ourselves in business is that we don't have patience. It's like it's almost like we're not aggressive enough. And we're also not patient at the same time, which sometimes conflicts in our brains and keeps up keep us up at night. Way too long.
Sean Cooper:I can definitely see that. Yeah, and You talked about that your method was, you know, getting up on a stage and being able to present to people. And now you actually help other people go that route as well. Correct?
Phylecia Jones:Yeah. So what I learned over the years from when I started money coaching, started talking about budgeting and all that stuff. A lot of people would only ask me like, well, how did you get on stage to speak? And I was like, well, you don't need to get on stage, you need a budget. And people are like, no, like, Okay. All right, then. And that was just one of those learning lessons of for me was to actually recognize what was working and what wasn't working. And what I was doing before it, it was working in that it got me some of these other gigs, you know, I got a chance to get on stage quite often got interviews, I got a TV gig out of it. But it wasn't really working on the client side. So I was like, okay, we need to rethink this. And, and so I took a walk about in London for my birthday a few years ago. And I decided to just go ahead and into this other world of, of researching and finding speaking gigs for people, because my background, I was a, I was a scientist for the Navy. So I just know how to find stuff. So it just worked out. I was like, I know how to find stuff. Don't ask me anything else, because I can do the math. And so it just kind of worked out. And I found a model now. And that's the other thing about business, you got to find a business model that works. So right now I run a membership site, which, you know, it only took, you know, five years to figure out that was the best thing for me. How much money I spent doing that, but but it's working out very well now. And it's put me in a completely different world when it comes to business finances, because now I have labor. And labor is so expensive.
Sean Cooper:Right?
Phylecia Jones:I look at look at my profit and loss, like oh
Sean Cooper:Awesome. my gosh, like, why am I paying you this? And then I see things This is this is completely off topic. But we've been friends like, okay, now I know why I'm paying you this, like, I just need a reminder of like, why am I paying you so much money. And, and when you start getting labor and labor costs, things do get even more real? Because now it's like, well, gosh, I gotta pay people. So I need to be in this, this lead generation mode of bringing business in. So now it's just, it's this just weird little balance of I, you know, I've got to stay on top of the numbers each week, make sure my expenses are where they need to be, so that I know exactly what's going out. And then being able to evaluate, evaluate when I'm ready to take a risk. And I think sometimes in the beginning of our businesses, we're just so for what, five, six years now. And it wasn't until I read your out there trying to do whatever it takes that we don't get into this kind of settled place of, you know, I know everything that's coming in, I know everything is coming out. Now let's start making some of these huge risks and see what happens with them. bio that I realized you were a scientist for the US Navy. I don't know if you could share anything about it. What What did that entail? Are you are you able to talk about that
Chris Holling:It entailed science? Bro
Phylecia Jones:No, I have to take you out if I talk about it, no. So I went to college, and I got a degree in computer science. And I was recruited to go work at an Navy lab in San Diego. So I grew up in Birmingham went to school in Atlanta and went to the beach out in San Diego, and I was there for 11 and a half years and I worked on I worked at a quite on a bunch of different projects where I got to travel. So I love traveling. So they would just send me the Europe because I was the young single person I was like, I'll go you know, like, I don't care, like where am I going Republic of Georgia. And like on the airplane like where's this? Where am I going? Um, so I so I did that for 11 and a half years. And you know, I that's where I learned I had to learn really quickly about personal finance because, you know, gosh, I think by the time I was 25 I was making like $100,000 a year. And of course I'm single and I love to travel and it was like oh passports and purses. Let's do this. then of course you know then I eventually bought a place in Southern California right when the world was falling apart. And it was and I had a waterfall coming through the ceiling which is never a good thing if you own a home to see water inside.
Sean Cooper:Yeah.
Phylecia Jones:And at the same time the car went to the shop and you know how you go and just get your tires rotated. And next thing they find $3,000 worth of other things that need to happen.
Chris Holling:Yeah, you got this. You got those a unicorn that's jumping around in your exhaust and.
Phylecia Jones:It is like what is going on. So all of that happened at the same time. And I was living with Living basically paycheck to paycheck because, you know, I was you know, yoloing life. And I was like, okay, something really has to change where I had to get in you know, get on top of the finances and you know I, I took a project in Nebraska that's how desperate I was. And I was in Nebraska working at Offutt Air Force Base.
Sean Cooper:I mean,
Phylecia Jones:you know,
Sean Cooper:Nebraska didn't hit your whole travel enthusiasm there.
Phylecia Jones:No, I mean, after going like London, and you know, I was in Spain, and then it's like, oh, Nebraska at Offutt Air Force Base. But one of the things was I got to, you know, bank in on a quite a quite a bit of per diem money. And at the same time, I was going through a short sale in Southern California. So I was slightly slightly homeless, where I had to move in with my boyfriend. Well, I had to move my cat in with the boyfriend, so I had to pay rent for her. Yeah, I had to pay kitty rent for her to live with him while I was back and forth, you know, between San Diego and Nebraska. It was fun times. But that's where I kind of got real about all of the finances started investing, and was like, we're never doing this ever, ever again. So. So that's so that's what I did. So I did that. eventually got my master's degree in engineering. And we did a transfer and ended up in Denver. And my husband, he worked in San Diego, he makes video games for a living, so we don't adult very well in his house.
Chris Holling:We should hang out. Well hang out, it'll be great.
Phylecia Jones:It's just the two of us. So he makes video games. We have a dog. The cats no longer with us. But yeah, it's just we're just hanging out here in Colorado these days. So yeah, so that was life in the before business life. Yeah. Working for the Navy. So it was pretty cool. I do miss the ocean.
Sean Cooper:Oh, yeah.
Chris Holling:I could see that.
Sean Cooper:Yeah. Anastasia struggled with that a lot when we were in Aurora so Yep.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, the ocean I some I have been able to go back. Because I'm in Colorado. So I've been able to go back and see the ocean every year because hubby gets to go back for the annual holiday party. And last year was I was getting scared because it was the first time I was like, Oh my gosh, we're not going to be able to go back because everybody's been working from home. So we own an RV. And I said you know what, I just want to see the ocean before the end of the year. We had some friends who came to stay with us and we went camping down in Arizona. And then we did this side trip. He was like I'm gonna take you to San Diego to see the ocean. I was there for three days that I saw the ocean and I was like that's all I need it and then we can leave and I had a burrito so had to have a California burrito.
Sean Cooper:Got your fix in, huh?
Phylecia Jones:I was like today years old when I realized a California burrito is only a San Diego thing so it makes sense why everybody looks at me crazy when I go to like a Mexican place here. Asking for a California burrito.
Sean Cooper:what's what's unique about it because most Californians I feel like they're they're jonesing for they're In and Out Burger or something like that. But California Burrito
Chris Holling:Now everyone talks to talk about LA and their taco. You haven't had to taco until taco in LA
Phylecia Jones:Oh, gosh. I hate LA Cal Okay, so the California burrito has basically the difference. It has french fries in it.
Chris Holling:dope.
Sean Cooper:Interesting. Okay.
Phylecia Jones:I don't know, I love it. And it's hard to get one here.
Chris Holling:So do you want what why can't you just throw french fries in a burrito, then
Phylecia Jones:you can
Sean Cooper:They ask if you want fries with pretty much anything else.
Phylecia Jones:But here, a lot of the burritos aren't wrapped. They're like, Oh, not open face. But you know, you get them on a plate and they smother them in green chili, because I'd never heard of green chili until I moved to Colorado. But there is kind of like I guess it's like a street burrito. You know, they wrap it and then they put everything on the inside. So when I'm here, I have to kind of like walk through like, Can you put the french fries inside and then you hear this whole discussion going on? And then I was like, can you wrap it in foil and they're like what is wrong with this woman so so I've just learned to just wait until I get back to San Diego to get a California burrito.
Chris Holling:I had a I had a lengthy discussion when I was in Texas about the difference between a taco and a burrito. Turns out that the only difference is whether or not the ends are closed. I finally figured that out. So if if somebody is wrapping up your Colorado burrito that you're referring to and there's those ends are open. It's a Colorado taco
Phylecia Jones:It's a Colorado taco. It's only been a few times in my life where people have been able to identify where I'm from based on food. When I was in San Francisco, I asked for California burrito he was like, do You live in San Diego and I was like, wow. And then the one time I was in Texas, I went to a barbecue place and I asked for a hot link sandwich and the guy was like, Are you from like Alabama or Tennessee? I was like, wow, like I feel like you're seeing way through me right now.
Chris Holling:Yeah. Well, I I grew up eating like Kansas City barbecue. And so when I went down to Texas, and I asked for some pulled pork I borderline got thrown out
Phylecia Jones:I'm not a Kansas City barbecue fan.
Chris Holling:I am. I am
Phylecia Jones:Southern style,
Chris Holling:but Texas won me over. So that's that's all right.
Phylecia Jones:brisket is a thing down there
Chris Holling:it is,
Phylecia Jones:Oh my gosh
Chris Holling:They almost threw me out.
Phylecia Jones:I know. And this is so important to business budgeting,
Chris Holling:right?
Sean Cooper:Yes, absolutely.
Chris Holling:business. Butgeting
Phylecia Jones:you gotta have fun. You gotta budget in the fun too.
Chris Holling:Dang it. I was gonna ask something. But you know, that's that's my my theme today.
Phylecia Jones:Did I take us
Sean Cooper:Apprently, it doesn't help the memory huh?
Phylecia Jones:Yeah,
Chris Holling:I was thinking about burritos, man. Like,
Phylecia Jones:I know everybody's hungry now.
Chris Holling:Yeah.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, everybody go do a burrito. Can Can people can can your listeners like take a photo and tag you? With their burrito?
Chris Holling:Yeah, but yeah, we're just so bad about social media that,
Phylecia Jones:okay, we're about to change that. So everybody listening to this? Go out and get your burrito in honor of this show. Make sure you take a photo tag everybody so we can see what you're eating.
Chris Holling:And tell us about how weird of a look you got when you tried to get a California burrito.
Phylecia Jones:Outside of Southern California,
Chris Holling:right. Yeah, San Diego people aren't aren't allowed to play.
Phylecia Jones:Yeah, they can.
Chris Holling:No, no, they can't
Phylecia Jones:They need to ask for green chili.
Chris Holling:Yeah, they need to ask for green chili.
Sean Cooper:There we go, yeah.
Chris Holling:Ask them to see if it happens the same way. It happened to me in Texas where you go ask for a burrito. And you ask them to smother it in chili. Let them look at you all stupid. And then they'll they'll smother it in that like Hormel stuff.
Phylecia Jones:I know, I knew that was going to happen.
Chris Holling:I was heated.
Phylecia Jones:Green Chili is definitely a thing here.
Sean Cooper:Oh, yeah.
Chris Holling:I know. I know. We were hoping to actually not have to split this one up. But we we honestly, we just had too much of a good time doing this whole thing. And so we are going to have a part two that is coming out with Miss Phylecia. And this is us splitting this up. So now is the time a pseudo intermission. Go get your burrito that we're talking about. Come back. Join us. We're going to have Part Two coming to you just as soon as we can get it out to you, sorry. We've been on such a hiatus for such a while. But thanks for sticking around. Thanks for coming back and checking out the season three ish four ish bonus episode, we're finally getting right back on track. We appreciate you guys appreciate you listening to us. And we look forward to you joining us in the future episodes. So thank you again for listening to us in the truth about investing back to basics. podcast disclaimer, disclaimer. The disclaimer following this disclaimer is the disclaimer that is required for this podcast to be up and running and fully functioning and moving forward. This is going to be the same disclaimer that you will hear in each one of our episodes. We hope you enjoy it just as much as we enjoyed making it.
Sean Cooper:All content on this podcast and acompanying transcript is for informational purposes only opinions expressed hearing by Sean Cooper are solely those of Fit financial consulting LLC unless otherwise specifically cited, Chris Holling and Phylecia Jones are not affiliated with fit financial consulting LLC. Nor do the views expressed by Chris Holling or Phylecia Jones represent the views of fit financial consulting, LLC. This podcast is intended to be used in its entirety. Any other use beyond the author's intent, distribution or copying of its content is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this podcast is intended as legal accounting or tax advice and is for informational purposes only. All information or ideas provided should be discussed in detail with an advisor, accountant or legal counsel prior to implementation. This podcast may reference links to websites for the convenience of our users. Our firm has no control over the accuracy or content of these other websites. advisory services are offered through Fit financial consulting LLC, an investment advisor firm registered in the states of Washington and Colorado. The presence of this podcast on the internet shall not be directly or indirectly interpreted as a solicitation of investment advisory services to persons of another jurisdiction unless otherwise permitted by statute. Follow up or individualized responses to consumers in a particular state by our firm and the rendering of personalized investment advice for compensation shall not be made without first complying with jurisdiction requirements, or pursuant an applicable state exemption. For information concerning the status or disciplinary history of a broker, dealer, investment advisor or other representative, a consumer should contact their state securities administrator