Bonus Episode?!
At this point, I don't know why we're surprised since we seem to keep adding them. But we were glad to have Charlie Koyle join us today! He is currently involved in the sales of Health and Life Insurance and we wanted to talk to him about some of the perspectives of that.
Charlie is an old friend of Chris's so please do not hold that against him.
And as always, be sure to listen for after the disclaimer at the end. That's where the best bits go.
Bonus Episode?!
At this point, I don't know why we're surprised since we seem to keep adding them. But we were glad to have Charlie Koyle join us today! He is currently involved in the sales of Health and Life Insurance and we wanted to talk to him about some of the perspectives of that.
Charlie is an old friend of Chris's so please do not hold that against him.
And as always, be sure to listen for after the disclaimer at the end. That's where the best bits go.
I lost it
Charlie Koyle:Now call him an idiot, Sean.
Sean Cooper:I don't have to say it, he knows,
Charlie Koyle:The circle is complete.
Chris Holling:No that's all true. It's all true. You know, actually, I do tend to start out with some form of a dad joke. And being that we just had a dad conversation. You've got to have at least a dad joke at the ready.
Charlie Koyle:I have a financial dad joke no less. But
Chris Holling:I almost spit out. Seltzer.
Charlie Koyle:I'm a little worried that you might have already used it.
Chris Holling:Is it 789?
Charlie Koyle:No, it's not that one.
Chris Holling:Okay, well, then. I don't know.
Charlie Koyle:It is. Why is money called dough?
Chris Holling:I don't know. I haven't used this one. I don't know.
Charlie Koyle:Because we all kneed it.
Sean Cooper:I like that one.
Chris Holling:Why don't I know that joke?
Sean Cooper:You should know that one. That's right up your alley.
Chris Holling:Well, I'm gifted Sean, but I'm not not that gifted.
Charlie Koyle:I came prepared. What can I say I'm a huge fan.
Chris Holling:Hey, I found our second face. This is the truth about investing back to basics podcast where we want to help you take control of your personal finance and long term investments. If you're looking for a way to learn the why and how of investing, then you found the right place. Thank you for taking the time to learn how to better yourselves. That's great. Well, here, I'll, I'll get it going. So then that way, we at least have the introduction going and then we'll just see where the wind takes us.
Charlie Koyle:Do you actually know what we're talking about this,
Chris Holling:I don't
Sean Cooper:Or are you just gonna throw it out there and then I'm gonna have to change it later.
Chris Holling:I'm the editor. I'm borderline Jesus, Sean, I can just just make things disappear like they never happened. So this is this is where I can just make it happen from here and just start an introduction and then fix it later. That's how I welcome. Welcome, everybody, ladies and gentlemen, to a bonus episode, finishing out our fifth season of The Truth about investing back to basics. My name is Chris Holling.
Sean Cooper:And I'm Sean Cooper.
Chris Holling:And we have a special guest to this guest guest with us today. A Mr.
Charlie Koyle:Oh, that's me.
Chris Holling:Yeah, that's your Go ahead. Yeah, I wasn't sure if I was gonna say it or not. Well, I
Charlie Koyle:thought I was gonna say He's Chris Holling that's Sean Cooper.
Chris Holling:Oh, we could try that.
Charlie Koyle:And I'm your host Charlie Koyle.
Chris Holling:We can try that.
Charlie Koyle:Just kidding. I'm not that host.
Chris Holling:No, it's perfect. No, it's perfect.
Charlie Koyle:I'm just kidding. I don't. Yeah, I'm already ruining this recording as is.
Chris Holling:No, no, we're, you're you're not. We're we're here. What are we? We actually don't have a plan.
Sean Cooper:Well, at least one of us has a plan. What is it Charlie
Charlie Koyle:It's gotta be Sean. No, it's got to be Sean because I definitely didn't bring a plan. As you know, I'm
Chris Holling:as I know,
Charlie Koyle:I'm a firefighter paramedic in a nearby area from you. So I have
Chris Holling:This is how Charlie and I met. I'd never really got into that.
Charlie Koyle:And we burned. Yeah, we probably should have done this. Like, Hey, who are you? And how do we know each other?
Sean Cooper:That would have made sense where were you on that, Chris?
Chris Holling:May. You know what, through the magic of editing you're, you're about to watch that. Sean Sean.
Sean Cooper:I might listen to it, but I can't watch it.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, we're gonna have to do the podcast plug and then we'll do that like, Hey, who are you? How do we know each other?
Chris Holling:Yeah.
Charlie Koyle:Cut and Paste this.
Chris Holling:This is gonna be a disaster now. This, this
Charlie Koyle:I knew that you were just gonna hate having me on as soon as we started talking.
Chris Holling:Yeah. So a little bit about our guest today, Mr. Charlie Coyle. Here. We've We've known each other for Oh, geez. That's, we're coming up on a decade.
Charlie Koyle:I think. Yeah, no, we are definitely coming up on a decade. Yeah. I just hit my ninth year, I think.
Chris Holling:Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it was it was 2012. We both started at the same department together. I was. I was working volunteer at the time you went career because you were volunteer right before that. Right.
Charlie Koyle:So I was volunteer at a neighboring. I was a volunteer at the department just to the west, right and got picked up courier.
Chris Holling:Right. And I right, and I already had my certifications in place. And so when the Academy started, since I already had the certifications that were required for it, then that meant that I could work the line but I still had to go through the academy so I was a was doing my time on the line while I was in Academy because I didn't want to just do another academy after I had just gotten out of one I wanted some, some on the line experience. And so we started within months of each other. And neither one of us knew anybody. So, so Charlie was kind of a, an oasis of people that all knew each other in a small town department that neither one of us really knew a bunch of people. So it was, it was good to to work with Charlie and then we we went our different ways over time, but stayed connected and now circled back. Because now we're we're money nerds.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, money nerds, money nerds. Money's important, man.
Chris Holling:It is. It. It is. It's it's shocked me how important it's been when I've just thought, oh, yeah, I'll just I'll just rough it, it'll be fine. And then. And then after figuring out that there was more importance to it, then what opportunities came available to me and what I could do with it after I started getting my stuff straightened out was was important. And we, we talked about that before. And that's what that's what led us to Charlie joining us today on some subjects. So we're looking forward to having you here today, Charlie, I appreciate it.
Charlie Koyle:Well, I'm super excited to be here because I am a super nerd and have totally pimped your podcast to as many people as I know, because just like you, most people think that they know more than they do. And they can just kind of wing it. And that's not the case. Yeah,
Chris Holling:I definitely appreciate that. We we try to keep these available. So it's just it hits to a bunch of different people where they go, you know, I've got everything straightened out, but then they can't figure out a budget. So we send them a budget one. Oh, well, you know, I, I do have a budget handled but, you know, Hey, should I should I get this insurance? Well, here's here's an insurance. Here's, here's how deductibles work. Here's here's, oh, I think I'm gonna take all my money and I'm gonna, I'm just gonna put it into this, this cool new way to invest. And it's, it's totally, totally active investing, like, Okay, well, here's, here's active versus passive. And that's, that's why we touch on all these little categories so that you can fine tune everything. Yes, no,
Charlie Koyle:no, it's super cool, super educational and fun to listen to, except for really hard to listen to Chris. And all your bad jokes. Just.
Chris Holling:You mean, dad jokes? You Miss Miss Ed?
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, I mean,
Chris Holling:and we wanted to bring in Charlie here today, because he exists in that realm of life insurance especially. And right, right, Charlie and I my my overgeneralizing that.
Charlie Koyle:I mean, I would say that life insurance is something that I am qualified and licensed to do. Oh,
Chris Holling:no. That was well said with other than it's a large question mark at the end of it.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm licensed as a insurance producer. But I wouldn't say that I'm like a subject matter expert, because it's a continuous process of learning.
Chris Holling:Which is all this podcast is anyway, honestly. So
Sean Cooper:Are you? Are you life and health? Or do you have that's good. other other lines? Oh,
Charlie Koyle:I'm just life and health.
Chris Holling:Perfect
Sean Cooper:That's fair.
Chris Holling:Okay. So there you go. So stretching into you life and health insurance. And that's why we wanted to bring him into this fold today, to just kind of help us as a as a bonus of wrapping up our season in this whole this whole deal and just kind of talk about some normal things. And I guess by normal things, what I wonder is when you are talking to people about life insurance, because that's that's what we've been focusing on at least this last stretch, is there. Is there anything in your realm in your line of work that, that you like to see that you like to encourage that that stands out to you the goods the bads, the what stands out to you?
Charlie Koyle:Well, it I would, I would say that there's goods and Bad's with everything, right? Like it's it's totally client dependent. It's, it's 100% you have to meet with each client figure out their needs, and there's goods and Bad's that come with everything. There's risks and benefits that come with everything. And then since I, I'm not, like, I don't have my series seven, I can't sell certain products that like a financial advisor could like I can't I can't sell a variable annuity. Somehow I can sell a 401k which doesn't make sense to me, but that's how the regulations work. So government is cool. But like it's, it's totally dependent on the client and their needs. I mean, I always encourage people to consider what kind of debt they have. And like I, I'm trying to like say it without recommending something via podcast, but
Chris Holling:sure.
Charlie Koyle:You know, like, usually The easiest entry level product for somebody to get into that I think most people would benefit from. And I think you guys talked about it, at the beginning of season five was term life insurance and just being able to cover those existing debts. Should something happen, right. And even though the payout is anywhere between point five, and I think 3% of overall, like policies,
Sean Cooper:he does listen
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, he does
Chris Holling:good, because I didn't remember that. Good.
Charlie Koyle:But even even though the actual payouts are typically low compared to the amount of policies that are out there, when those when those policies are used, it's super important, right? Because you don't want to leave your family with mountains of debt. There's costs associated associated with death, there's costs associated with, you know, cause of death, whether it was injury or illness, there's going to be medical bills, there's going to be things to pay off, there's going to be mortgages, there's going to be loss of income, there's going to be I mean, tons of stuff that I think a lot of people don't take into consideration. So I think it's important that people are at least covering their debts. And that's, it's, it's hard to say, right, because insurance is such a valuable part of a complete financial profile. But it's not. Like, it isn't a complete financial profile. So it's really important that, like you meet with a client, or that the client meets not only with the insurance producer, but also a financial advisor to figure out what product is right for them. Because a lot of financial advisors are also versed in insurance. Like in Colorado, you have to be licensed to sell insurance to be a financial advisor. So usually, they've taken the entry level course, and they have some background, and they can tell you which product you need. And even if you need a product, because sometimes people don't need it. Right. And that's, that's kind of the name of the game with insurance production is like, sometimes they're snakes, right? Like they're there to make a commission, they're there because they want to sell you what's gonna make them the most money versus what's the right product. So I can't say that all insurance producers are the greatest people in the world. But I'm sure there's great used car salesmen just like they're bad used car salesman. I don't know.
Chris Holling:That's, I think that's, that's, that's great. Honestly, I think it's pretty well rounded. And it's, it really fits into what I think I've wound up saying, and in every episode at this point is that it's, it's just keeping in mind tools for the toolbox kind of thing. Because I, I'm with you, it's not that that insurance should never be a part of it, or should be a majority for it or anything, it's just important to understand, you know, where you are, in your current point in time, where things that are important to you are what needs to be covered, what what may need to be covered from one step to the next and in the interim, and the steps to go through that. And, and when you're talking about finding the different salesman and finding the different types of people, I tend to toss around a phrase that I didn't realize it was going to be so directed at Charlie here, but you know, I don't I don't ask a life insurance salesman, if I need life insurance, if that's if that's a fair way to put it. I don't ask a used car salesman if I need if I need a new use car type thing. And it's I I think that there is some level of going okay, I've done the research, I've looked at the things that are important to me. And now I've decided, I for sure want a used car. Okay, now I'm going to go talk to somebody that knows exactly that knows used cars knows all the different ins and outs and, and whatnot, but doing your own research to figure out what's important to you and why it's important to you, I think is is really important.
Charlie Koyle:I think that like you kind of hit the nail on the head is like you don't you don't ask a life insurance salesman. Do you need life insurance? Right? Like if and this actually happened to me? When long before I got into, you know, like, my finance goals and stuff like that. I was a new homeowner newly married and believe it or not, we had a door to door insurance salesman, a life insurance salesman and
Chris Holling:wow,
Charlie Koyle:yeah, no, it was super weird.
Chris Holling:I thought that was a thing of the past anymore.
Charlie Koyle:So did I. But I think I was like 22. So I didn't understand. And ironically, right like I had a financial advisor, somebody I meet with twice a year and deals with like my Roth account and all that stuff. But we had never talked about insurance. He'd said, you know, you should consider insurance especially to cover any of your debts, but we never really talked about it because at 22 You don't think about like the fact that you could die, right? Like especially, I mean, you and I do the same thing. Most of the people that we see In that position are old or sick or suffering. And,
Chris Holling:sure.
Charlie Koyle:The funny thing about life insurance is if you're older, sicker suffering, you're not going to be eligible to get life insurance, you have to be healthy, right? It's a gamble. It's a it's an educated guess, on behalf of the life insurance company that says, Oh, you are probably going to outlive this policy. So we're going to make money on you. And if you say, Hey, I'm 79, and I have cancer, and I've got two years to live, I'd like a 30 year term policy, they're gonna be like, No, that's, that's not a thing. So, you know, at 22, I was like, I don't need insurance, I'm healthy, I'm young and active, and no big deal. And then all of a sudden, health insurance or not health insurance, life insurance salesmen show up at my door, and they're talking about whole life. And without recommending or, or discrediting a product one way or another, it just wasn't the right product for me. And just the way that they were talking about it, they made it seem like it was the perfect product for everyone. And there's no such thing as a perfect product for anybody. In any case, whether it's financial advising, or if it's insurance, sales, every single person is going to have different needs. And it's really important to meet those different needs. So I guess Long story short, is, if you don't have a financial advisor, you should find one of those for sure, right. And you should find one that you trust. And the same thing goes for your insurance salesman, you should find one that you trust, because like the two door to door salespeople that came by the reason they were trying to sell me that specific product is because at the time that product was advertised to them is what's gonna make them the greatest amount of money.
Chris Holling:Sure.
Charlie Koyle:They don't know me, they don't know my needs. They came in and they had the exact same pamphlets that they were going to hand to everybody. And they don't really care. So it's important to find somebody that you trust, who's not going to oversell you or undersell you or sell you something that you don't need. Because that's the reality of it is like, insurance companies wouldn't exist if they weren't making money, right? So insurance salesman wouldn't exist. If they
Chris Holling:Absolutely. weren't making money. They're like, that's, that's called capitalism, like, welcome to the game. But it is okay to make money doing the right thing. So it's important to find someone who's willing to go down that path with you and take the time to talk to you and figure out exactly what you need, exactly what you don't need and find the right stuff for you. And I think that that goes kind of hand in hand with what Sean does. And, you know, hopefully, he feels the same way.
Sean Cooper:Yep.
Chris Holling:Sean, where does that land on on things for you? So like, someone's coming in and talking to you, and where do you land? I guess there's more?
Sean Cooper:No, I would absolutely agree with what he was saying is you definitely want to work with somebody you trust. But I would have add a caveat to that. Because he brought up some great points about how, while they are supposed to be working for you, and looking out for your best interests. Certainly, if they are in a position where they're supposed to be a fiduciary, then they legally are bound to work in your best interests at all times, regardless of what pans out for them. So that concept of trust. The the caveat I would add to that is I'm not even sure how to put this because I, in my capacity working in corporate for years before starting my, my firm. I worked with 1000s of financial advisors. The biggest and most successful financial advisors were rarely the ones that knew the most about finance and investing. They were people who were likable.
Chris Holling:Sure. Yeah, I could definitely see that.
Sean Cooper:And so I guess my caveat is, yes, you want to trust them, but you want to take the extra step of understanding their knowledge base and understanding enough to be able to test their knowledge base and where they're coming from and what their what the recommend route, what they're recommending and why they're recommending it.
Chris Holling:Right.
Sean Cooper:Because yeah, I agree trust is absolutely crucial in when it comes to your finances. Because if you can't trust the person that you're working with, you're never going to tell them all the information they need to actually do the best job for you. But don't necessarily just rely on your gut instinct of Yeah, I like this person, they're trustworthy. They'll do the best for me.
Chris Holling:Well, that's a good point. I'm wondering if I know we've alluded to some of this before, but I don't know if we've ever actually come out and, and said it specifically. But part of the reason that we we do this podcast is sort of a, this, this, this might be kind of a large generalization of it, but I think it's the best way to word it a moral duty, that's an extension of Sean from the fiduciary realm, where it's exactly what he's talking about that he has a legal obligation, let alone he just happens to be a decent guy that does want everyone to be successful. And the best way to do that is to, to have a knowledge base, there's nothing in any of our episodes that we've ever addressed as like a, these people will know better than you or you will only be successful if you do this yourself by no stretch, have we ever done anything like that it's been very, we want everyone to, to know, whatever you're interested in, in learning more about and take the time to gather the knowledge for it. Because if you have somebody acting in your stead, you should at least be able to understand what's happening so that you can hold that accountable or so that you can make good decisions and, and point them in a in a good direction if they don't see something, even if they're acting in your best interests, or maybe to look out for somebody that might not be acting in your best interests. And that's why we search for these tools in the toolbox and why we encourage people really trying to take the time to to better themselves through this. Because it's you taking that on in order to handle that and address it as your own not because there's a certain way to do it, but because we really just do want to see everybody successful in the in the phrase that Jarmar likes to use that I like to toss around. I just I just want rich friends, man. Like, that'd be that'd be great. I I have no intention of ever getting a boat but if I got somebody that's like, you know, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be as wealthy as I am today. But I've got this boat I'm gonna go hang out with that guy. And that's that's part of it too. But really just just taking the time to to keep people accountable. Even if you're not the one doing the the active portion of the investing I think is is very important.
Charlie Koyle:I mean, you don't have to own the boat. I think that's probably not the greatest decision in the world. But you want to have a friend with a boat.
Chris Holling:That's what I'm saying? I don't I don't want the boat. I just want to ride the boat.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, ride the boat.
Chris Holling:Yeah.
Sean Cooper:What's the what's the saying the the best two days of owning a boat or the day you buy it and the day you sell it?
Chris Holling:Yeah. I've, I've heard that
Charlie Koyle:or bought what is? What is boat stand for bust out another 1000.
Chris Holling:Those of you that are listening, you don't have to sell your boat. Just Just call me so that we can ride in your boat before you sell it.
Charlie Koyle:I was about to say
Sean Cooper:I was gonna ask Charlie, though, because one of the things we've we haven't addressed. We I think we have a future episode about it specifically related to like financial advisors and that sort of thing. But could you talk a little bit more about the some of the differences between insurance agents, one of the things that comes to my mind is captive versus independent. You know, what's the difference? Is it something that matters? I know, there's advantages and disadvantages to each. Are there other things that should be considered or differences that people might want to be aware of?
Charlie Koyle:Are you talking about like specifically independent versus captive agents or like insurance agents versus financial advisors versus CFPs? That kind of stuff for
Sean Cooper:captive versus independent? Specifically, if you want to talk about the other you're welcome to as well?
Charlie Koyle:Well, so there's independent and captive. So basically, what that means is, I'm trying to space it so that my kid is not in the background over the recording. But so there's, it's, I mean, the best way to think of it is like, if if you go to a restaurant versus ordering from DoorDash, right, so if you wanted french fries from one place and a hamburger from another place, you would go to DoorDash right, because you have multiple different choices. is a captive is like just the French fry place, you have to get a burger from that place. So I mean, we can talk about like the big names in insurance, right? So like all state, right? They they've got good
Chris Holling:And that voice commercials good advertisement and all that stuff. But if you're saying
Charlie Koyle:and I mean the best for voice right
Chris Holling:Are you in good hands. Allstate I don't know how low I can.
Charlie Koyle:But you know, so like if you're if you're talking to an Allstate agent or even like State Farm, right, like they have tons of different neighborhood offices, their signs are huge. If you're going to a state farm or an Allstate agent, you are going to get a State Farm or an allstate product. Which isn't necessarily to say that that's a bad thing.
Sean Cooper:But that is captive, that is
Charlie Koyle:right, that's getting that's captive, so they sell within their realm. So if it's a State Farm agent, you're going to get a State Farm product. If it's an Allstate agent, you're going to get an Allstate product versus an independent agent, like me, where I can shop around I can look at, it's more of like a brokerage position, right? Like I can shop different insurance companies to get my clients the best product at the best rate. And usually, that's what it comes down to most insurance products are going to be 99%. Similar in the contract and the language, it really comes down to cost versus benefit. So an independent agent has the freedom to look outside of their little box, and a captive agent lives within their box. That being said, a captive agent may be able to get you a better rate. Because they're within their little box, they might have different rates that they're allowed to sell, they collect obviously different commission. It's it's a whole bigger system kind of behind the curtain, but they may be able to get a better rate. If that's like if there's like a specific product that you're interested in. If you're just interested in like a term life policy, you don't really care who owns it. You know, you can you can talk to an independent agent. And usually they can they can check tons and tons of different companies and get you the best product for the best price.
Sean Cooper:That was great. That was a great summary.
Chris Holling:Yeah, I think that was that was really well said. And I
Charlie Koyle:I think everything I'm saying is super long winded and you're gonna have to cut out like 90% of it.
Chris Holling:No,
Sean Cooper:that's Chris's job.
Chris Holling:That sounds like a future Chris problems. Well,
Sean Cooper:yeah, we don't have to worry about that right now. You can just keep talking. Now, I was gonna I was gonna add to that. Because on your point there each insurance company, yes, they're competing across the broad spectrum, but they also tend to try to differentiate themselves in certain ways. So they tend to try to have certain areas that they can beat the competition, either in additional features, or maybe lower premium, something along those lines. Right, right. Yeah, if you bundle or something along those lines. And so by way of example, when Jackson national life was first created, their founder specialized the company in offering insurance life insurance, to smokers, that was their specialty. So where other companies are either going to list you as a substandard risk and charge a higher premium, or they're not going to insure you at all, that was their specialty, so they could offer better premiums to smokers. Now, they don't even sell that anymore, for the most part. But that's to give you an idea that each of these companies is going to have some potentially some form of specialty that they're trying to differentiate themselves with. And sometimes that, you know, oftentimes that independent broker is going to be able to shop those around. Now, if that specialty happens to be at that captive agent. The only way you're going to get it is through that captive agent.
Chris Holling:Sound Yeah, absolutely. Well, and mentioning that too, with with the shopping around, whether it's yourself or you having somebody that's that's able to look into it for you or or anything along those lines. We we've discussed in in previous episodes, I'd have to try and figure out which one it was that we specifically talked about this but
Charlie Koyle:I'm sure I can tell you
Chris Holling:I'm sure. But I don't I don't want him to completely make us look bad. So I'm not going to ask him to do it.
Charlie Koyle:I'm already making you look bad.
Chris Holling:We talked about the importance of continuing to reevaluate where your insurance is at maybe yearly. And that could be because there's there's a new opportunity that developed or something in your life may have changed. And having somebody that can can really shop around and look at all those things like Charlie like like a broker can really help offer a lot of that and I I experienced that this last year where I realized I was paying for, for car insurance with a company that was that was great. And they had great customer service. And I really enjoyed them. And I'm not going to use them by name by any stretch. And they probably won't after I tell you the story, but I, I called them one day and said, Hey, I've been doing some shopping around and this other company is able to offer me coverage at a lower rate and actually offered me more coverage. And I haven't used you guys in years. So I'm really paying a lot of extra fees. And it's not, it's not in my interest anymore to use you guys unless you can match the rate that you're doing, that they're doing. They said, Oh, yeah, let's let's have a look. Oh, they're they're doing that. No, we, we can't do that. I said, Okay. Well, I really don't want to leave because your customer service is great. Oh, yeah. It's it's ranked number one in the in the nation. Like that's, I believe that. And especially when I handle these phone calls, I, I believe that like but if I am paying extra money just to have a nice phone call every month, then I would rather spend the money on a 900 number, then use this company, and I will go with them instead. And they said Have a good day, sir. And then I no longer use them. But it's I think it's important to shop around and reevaluate some of those things. Because then if if you have that extra wiggle room, in my case, I was able to dedicate those funds to go to other things that were important to me because of it. But just reevaluating is important as well.
Sean Cooper:Right. And somebody else might have said no, I like the customer service. I've had awful experiences elsewhere, I'll pay extra for that.
Chris Holling:Right, which is how I wound up with them in the first place. But then I realized that I just I wasn't using them. So I didn't even need the customer service aspect either. And that's so I changed, my circumstances changed. And so I reevaluate. And I'm, I'm glad I did
Sean Cooper:there you go
Charlie Koyle:I think it's the right thing to do. I mean, especially with I mean, if you're young, and when you're older, it's a little bit more difficult as far as like, the different types of products. But take for instance, like term life, right? In my case, when I first got term life, I was like 25. But you know me back then I was like 260, like big boy, when I didn't big pants, and now I'm down to 220. And believe it or not, like even though I was healthy, I was a 25 year old dude, I was overweight, and that changes your rates and stuff like that. And then when you think about insurance, you're not thinking about like your overall health, you're thinking about usually it's age, age is like their big actuarial table, right. But then they have different grades and ratings are associated with overall health. And that's why you have to go in and get a physical and a blood test and stuff like that. But most of the companies, I don't want to say all. Well, in the case of Term life, everything is covered. But by law, they have to cover your physical prior, like you're not, you're not going to pay for that if you want to reevaluate. It's not like a house where if you want to refinance, you have to pay for the appraisal. If you want a new appraisal on you, you call your insurance company and say, Hey, I'm super, super slim now. rock hard abs, I was super fat berfore.
Chris Holling:I got the ThighMaster. I'm just saying,
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, I'm extremely attractive now.
Sean Cooper:They give discounts for being attractive
Chris Holling:about to. It's once they get a look at all this.
Charlie Koyle:It's why I pay the premium premium. But yeah, so it's it, just like any and I don't want to speak for Sean. Right? I don't want to speak for financial advisors, because I'm not one right. And but it's really important to reevaluate your finances regularly, right? Like you want to do that. And when I think of insurance, I think of it as a part of your financial profile. And if you're meeting with your financial advisor, you're going over your finances at home, or whatever you're doing. If you're doing that twice a year, you should consider doing it with your insurance depending on the product that you have. Because you might be able to keep the exact same coverage with the exact same company, but pay half the price. So
Chris Holling:absolutely.
Charlie Koyle:Like there's no harm in re evaluating. It's not gonna hurt it. And some people are totally happy paying. Like, I don't know, we'll use a rough estimate, but like 20 bucks a month for their term life, right? Because it's cheap, it's easy. It comes out. If they go down to 17 bucks, is it gonna bug them a lot? Well, that $3 is$36 a year over 30 years, right? Like, it could be expensive, right? But is it worth it? Is it worth your time? What's your time worth stuff like that, but in some people's cases, the difference could be, you know, 50 bucks a month, it could be 100 bucks a month depending on the size of your policy depending on what the changes were and that will equate to a lot of money. So
Chris Holling:absolutely
Charlie Koyle:re Evaluate, reassess. Why not? Doesn't hurt?
Chris Holling:Right? Well, and then, you know, just like you're saying too worst case, you go through the revaluation and then they, they make that difference from the the 20 to the 17 bucks. And then you go, Oh, well, you know, this, this didn't really change much for me, right? I don't want to entirely switch companies just for this, this amount, or, Oh, they do offer this, but it's it's even $1 more. But it's, it's what's meeting things that I need right now, then that's, that's why
Charlie Koyle:One, it can also go up instead of down to write it's important. like, let's say I kept so I mean, long story short, right. Like I went from 260 to 220, I lost 40 pounds, but my insurance premium dropped. They went from 24 to $17. a month, right? For me personally.
Chris Holling:Sure.
Charlie Koyle:And that's not a ton of money. But it's a huge percentage change, right? But the kicker is, is that policy that I had was no longer enough for what I have now, right? Because when I bought that I was in my first house, I didn't have any kids. I was making a different salary working for a smaller department at the time. And now I'm, you know, in a bigger house, I've got two kids. I've got a different quality of life based on my income now, I guess.
Chris Holling:Right,
Charlie Koyle:but so like, my needs have changed, as opposed to like the, the the other side where things can get better. But the cool thing is, is because everything kind of all changed it at once, I guess you could say,
Chris Holling:Sure.
Charlie Koyle:My rates went down. But by keeping my rates the same, my coverage went up. So kinda like you're saying, I don't have to leave the company. I like my company I like, you know, I do other insurance products through them too. And, like, they're great. But because of everything that went on, I had to reevaluate. Was it enough? You know, was it being supplemented through an insurance product that I received from my employer, which, depending on what you do for a living, you may get, you know, do you need to maintain your existing insurance? If you have insurance elsewhere? Do you have more debt? Have you bought a bigger house? Do you have more kids? Are there more responsibilities, bigger gaps that have to be filled? Should you pass? What would you guys call it? I think it was, like death insurance instead of life insurance?
Chris Holling:Death Insurance. He does listen.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah. So like, Should you need that death insurance? Is it going to be enough and things change every single year. So I think you guys might have talked about it and how you can have, like, drawing a blank on it, which is great, considering I'm responsible for selling this stuff, but like the face value of a policy can go up, it can go down, it can stay level. So like, maybe you were in a product with a level face value. And you you actually might benefit from something that's going down because your debt is decreasing over time, and you have everything set up and super low interest, like, you know, your mortgages, a percent or whatever magic number that some people might have been able to hit and you're like, Well, I'm really not going to refi that into a 7% or something like that. But it makes sense to keep your coverage, there might be a better product. I mean, there's there's so many good reasons to reevaluate that, like, I don't know, I'm just reiterating the same point that you've made, and I made, but like, just do it doesn't hurt.
Chris Holling:Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No matter what. And, you know, just just like we're saying too, if you do it, and then you find everything's good, great, then you then you have that certainty.
Charlie Koyle:The other cool thing, I don't want to keep beating on a dead horse, but like, let's say, I thought maybe I'm healthier, and I'm in better shape or whatever. And I could get a reduced rate. And I go in, and I do my physical on blood screen and they go, we can't give you a better rate because your hair is turning gray. And that's terrible news. And I'm so sorry. Sorry, Sean. But
Chris Holling:shots fired.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah. But you know, so let's say they discover that you have an underlying health condition, they can't cancel your policy. So like, it really is no risk to the consumer to do that. And I know some people might hesitate because they're like, ah, you know, I put on some pounds or I got a family history of cancer and, you know, say let's say for instance, you're a firefighter, you're in a high risk career, you've got a high risk of cancer, you might not want to go in because you might, they might discover you have cancer and you're like, well, they're going to shoot my rates up. Well, they don't get to do that. That's the cool thing is you're already locked into that contract. So worse case, and obviously that would be a really crappy way to find out that you have cancer. but they're not going to jack your rates up. So there really is no risk to the consumer to just keep looking.
Sean Cooper:I'd say the one the one caveat to that would be if it was material information that you knew about when you filled out the application, and we're in the first two years of the contract, which would be the content and contest, contestability period. So but yes,
Chris Holling:yeah, don't do that.
Charlie Koyle:Don't do that don't lie on the application, because
Sean Cooper:that's the easiest thing to garner from that.
Charlie Koyle:And you want to know why they only pay out half a percent to 3% of all their policies, it's because some people, like will buy an insurance product, it's like a weird way of laundering money, but without their, like, they'll buy the insurance product, knowing that they're dying. But then when, like, the insurance companies are not just gonna cut you a check and be like, Oh, well, Bill's dead, you can tell because of the way it is, right? There, they're still gonna do an investigation, like they have to receive proof there's, there's still hoops you have to jump through. And they're, they're gonna analyze your contract versus whatever they found. They're not just going to hand out money. So Right.
Chris Holling:Absolutely.
Sean Cooper:My question was in regard to where you see the industry going, in the future, both short term and long term. And I'll add to that, a couple of concepts that we've somewhat touched on in the past, and some that maybe we haven't. So number one, there are a couple of different insurance companies out there that and this probably, this might not actually apply to you, given your your licenses, but their annuity contracts, they swore up and down, they were never going to go the fee based route. They would always be commissioned based products. And now of course, they've gone the fee based route. So that that would be one concept. And then another is, this was one that Chris and I touched on very briefly, in I don't remember which episode, but we mentioned the idea that Social Security has, is facing a number of challenges that are based on demographics, and that life insurance may very well be facing some of those same challenges associated with those demographics in the future. So throwing those two things out out at you in relation to the future of the industry, what are your thoughts on those in particular, or other ideas that I, you know, maybe we haven't even addressed
Charlie Koyle:big guns.
Sean Cooper:Yep.
Charlie Koyle:Cool. So Sean's questions? Where do I think the insurance industry is going? Well, I have a ton of opinions on that. The fee based versus commission based honestly, I, I couldn't I couldn't tell you, right. Like, I think that a lot of that is probably going to be pushed by the brokers themselves, because there's an opportunity to make more money long term, I guess. And but, man, it's tough, because, you know, you talk about insurance companies, especially the ones that have annuities. And you look at the age and the demographic. You know, there's, there's so many different I don't want to say like, environmental factors, but like, I think you touched on it a little bit earlier in the season. Some people kill themselves. And
Chris Holling:that's true
Charlie Koyle:See a higher rate of suicide when things are going poorly. And so depending on what happened,
Sean Cooper:like right now,
Charlie Koyle:like, like right now, so,
Chris Holling:and it's the holidays like that never mind.
Charlie Koyle:But I mean, you see a higher rate of suicide, we also have a pandemic that we're currently going through. So the rate of death is, despite the fact that, you know, it's such a small percentage of people that get sick. It's significantly higher than the insurance companies have planned for. So it's, it's a little worrisome because especially with an annuity where you have a guaranteed payout, and I mean, what happens if that company's not there, right. Like there's there's backup, I guess you could say like backup support, there's other companies that can buy your, your policy, most of them are FDIC insured, but that's only up to 250,000. So like, there's there. It's, it's a slippery slope, because insurance is like so important. But I also think that historically, or maybe not historically, but recently, over the years, insurance companies have started to pivot themselves to try to be financial advisors, like I know guys who sell insurance who are selling products as an investment right. And I think that the The reason they're doing that is almost to as a hedge, right? Because now you have all of these policies that are outstanding, and you have to have the resources to fund those policies should something happen, right? Like you have all of this outstanding liability. How do you pay for that should something catastrophic appear right. And so now you have all kinds of different products, right. Like you have annuities, you have whole life, I mean, whole life's been around a while, but you have whole life, you've got term life, you've got annuities, you've got variable annuities, you've got indexed annuities, you got universal whole life, you've got variable whole life, I mean, like, all these different products, and they're advertised totally differently. Then like a traditional insurance product, where we think of insurance as the just in case and then you have whole life, which is advertised as the just in case, but you also get your money back. And then you have like, Universal Life or indexed universal life that says what you're going to put in, and then you're going to make money, but it's also life insurance, but it's also making you money. And keep in mind, some of these you have to have, like you have to be licensed through FINRA to sell so like, I can't sell everything. But like, it's, it's tough, right? Because you've seen such a big transition in the insurance industry as a whole. Because a lot of these like, like Indexed Universal Life didn't exist, like 20 years ago, that wasn't a thing. And now you have all of these insurance companies. And man, I've, if the people I work with here, some of the things or the opinions that I have, I might not work there very much longer. So because, like I said earlier, like the insurance industry is about making money, right? Like it is about protecting yourself with the product. But insurance salesmen sell insurance because they make money insurance companies sell insurance, because they make money. There, that's the reality of it. And so now they're they're being advertising, you have these products that are being advertised as like the Swiss Army knife, right, like you can say, for school or a wedding, but it's also insurance, but then it's also tied to, you know, the s&p 500. And you're not going to lose money, because it's got a 0% floor. And I mean, it's it's so weird, because, like, I know, this has nothing to do with fee based versus commission based, but you start looking at, like different styles of accounts, kind of like that, right? Like, you look at an index Universal Life, which is technically not a securities product, it just follows the index. And it gives insurance providers or insurance brokers or producers, the ability to sell these products that are almost being advertised kind of like as an investment strategy. And from where I sit, if, if I'm selling somebody, a product, right, like, if I'm selling you term life, you are going to pay a flat rate every single month, for a level, you know, face value of the product, right? Like, I know exactly what you're going to pay, you know exactly how much you're going to get paid out should something happen. But then you start looking at like an IUL. And you have the opportunity to potentially make money, right? Like your money is going in, and it can make you more money. That being said, if I'm the sales, it doesn't make sense that I'm only making money off of like a flat rate premium, when the face value of your policy could be going up, right? Like, as a consumer, absolutely. Like, I want no offense to the other insurance salesman, right. But like, I'm not here to get you paid. Like that's not as a consumer, I'm not here to pay the insurance salesman. But as the insurance salesman, if I sell you a product and you end up making money on it. The same way that you know, a an investment advisor or a financial adviser, somebody that's working with you on your 401k They're making usually a percentage of your assets under management. Now, you've watched insurance transition to all these different products that are disguised as assets under management, but there's no variation in compensation. But the kicker is, is how do the insurance companies make more money, right? And they said, we're just gonna be you know, flat rate, we're just going to be fee based. Like, you look at that, and they're already making money on top right, because it's usually got a cap. I think right now like most of the products are capped at between seven and 12%. So they're already making money over that seven to 12%, but they're still managing a certain amount of assets. sets that you've been making. So like they have the potential to make more money as things go on. And that's like it is capitalism, and they are going to do everything they can to make kind of as much money as they can, because that's the goal,
Chris Holling:right?
Charlie Koyle:And they're gonna make more money off of a commission based schedule than a fee based schedule. So, like, it would be cool, if everybody stuck to their word and was like, we are only going to be the good guy, we are only going to charge you this flat rate. But people don't have billions of dollars, because they were like, I'm gonna do the right thing. And, you know, feed the world population for a year. Right? So they're, they're gonna do what they can to make more money. And it's, and I know that, like, I've had the conversation with Chris, before I talked to you, Sean. But like, that's, that's kind of the world we live in, right? Like these people are going to get in. So I'm never going to be a good insurance salesman. But you know, at the end of the day, like, the producers are there to make money the companies are there to make money. Yeah, they made promises. But ultimately, their their job is to make as much money as they can, as quickly as they can, and then make money off their money and stuff like that. So yeah, I think I think commission based is going to be I do think it's the future. Like, I don't think there's any way of avoiding it, especially with the the style of, or the type of product that's being sold, obviously, like Term Life is still the number one product that's being sold, right? Like that's the most access product by most people, at least, anecdotally, right. Like, I can tell you more people want that than anything else. But for the remainder of these products, they're there, they have more opportunities to make more money, and still be able to sell it to you as a product that is also going to make you money. Right. So do I think that that's the future? Absolutely. Do I think that I agree with it? Not necessarily. But do I understand why? Yeah, definitely. And then, what was your second question? Because I got hung up on that one.
Sean Cooper:That's okay. That's okay. I'll refresh on that. I want to add two things. Number one, Charlie's operating at a bit of a disadvantage, because there are a couple of episodes that we have recorded. That may come out before this. My point being is we've talked about some of these things that Charlie has not heard before,
Chris Holling:okay.
Sean Cooper:And so if somebody hears, actually listens to it, and then listens to this. That's why. So anyway, the the other thing that I would add is one of the underlying beauties of capitalism that I think gets downplayed is, every time you spend money, it's the equivalent of voting, you're voting with your dollar. And you you, you have more power to vote with that than anything else. So yes, people in business are out to make money, they wouldn't be in business otherwise, but you have the power to determine who succeeds who gets that money. And going back to that issue of trust, and finding the people that you can trust and are looking out for your best interest and, you know, feeding those people as opposed to others. The that capitalism thing, coin has both sides, and I think it gives the the consumer just as much power as well. So getting back to my, the secondary question there that was in regards to what was my secondary question?
Chris Holling:Well, before you do that, before, before you do that. That's, that's, that's me snapping. It's my it's my applause because your, your, your capitalism is voting is poetic. I liked it. Alright, so yeah, what was your secondary part where you got confused?
Sean Cooper:How demographics will impact the industry going forward? And if you'd like I can kind of fill you in on what we we've said previously.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah. Why don't we start there's been so that I can try to add to it.
Sean Cooper:So the concept that I've thrown out there is that Social Security has faced an issue with the basically, the baby boomer generation being a larger generation than the Generations Under it that are paying into Social Security. So you have a larger demographic that is retiring and living longer and therefore pulling on social security with a smaller group of smaller demographics paying into it. So I think at one point in time that we're, you know, roughly what was it 16 people paying into Social Security for every one that's drawing, and now we're at like, less than three people paying in for every one that's drawing or something along those lines,
Charlie Koyle:It's like two point seven or something like that.
Sean Cooper:Yeah, exactly. So. And that same. And you alluded to this, too, as you were talking about the, you know, variety of products, and all of those products out there that ultimately have liabilities associated with them. But eventually, that same concept. Demographics essentially dictate that the same thing could could be a challenge for life insurance companies, as well. And I've also suggested that we've seen a little bit of that in terms of the profit margins of many insurance companies, when you look at premiums versus liabilities paid out. And, and that's not completely demographics. Some of that just has to do with different age groups being interested in different types of products, like you talked about term insurance versus, you know, some of the younger generations are not as interested or in whole life or something along those lines. So that's kind of what we've touched on. It's been very brief in the past, but wanted to get your, your take as well. Or maybe there's something else that you'd like to add in there, too.
Charlie Koyle:All right. Let's talk about the current demographics and how they're impacting the future of life insurance. So how do I think it's gonna go right, like, everything's my opinion, some of it's fact based, some of it's just like, totally gut based? I, I think that kind of like anything else, they're
Sean Cooper:That's fair. gonna find a way to survive. You know, Social Security is unique as it functions as kind of a big pot. And granted, some of that money is invested. Right. But it's usually very low risk. It's not like they're throwing it into startup companies, right? Like, they're not just saying, like, Oh, I wonder how much money we can make with all these other people's money. But the same time It by invested? You mean a line item on a ledger somewhere in the IRS' computer system?
Charlie Koyle:Yeah.
Sean Cooper:That of money that's already been used, then. Yes. Sure
Charlie Koyle:I mean, you know what I mean, but like,
Sean Cooper:Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I'm just giving you a hard time.
Charlie Koyle:But this the same thing kind of goes with insurance. I think what a lot of people don't know about insurance companies is they don't just take your money and put it in their pocket and hold it for a rainy day, and pool it in some big Scrooge McDuck, safe, right. Like, they're, they're doing things with that money to make money. So they're taking your premiums and they're investing your premiums, they are making money, the same way that you as a consumer can make money through a traditional retirement accounts, your qualified accounts, or your non qualified accounts, whatever you whatever you're doing to make money. The insurance companies are doing the same thing. The insurance companies obviously have people that they employ, they, you know, they have really, really smart people that are determining all their actuarial tables for payouts on the consumer level, but on the same side, or on the other side, they have financial advisors of their own that are saying like, hey, you know, this is a good opportunity. We think based on market trends, this is where we're going to put the money. Granted, they're not they're not doing like high risk investing. They're not they're not a 22 year old, just getting into the stock market saying, Make me as much money as possible right now. So I can compound that interest over time, but they are making money. So they're taking your money to make more money. And that's where I think that they're gonna have to start pivoting in order to survive, because like you said, their their premiums are, or I guess their rate of premium is coming down, because not as many people are as interested. And then you run into what are they called? The Gen Xers. What's the generation below us, Chris?
Chris Holling:The below us?
Charlie Koyle:Yeah,
Chris Holling:like, younger to us,
Charlie Koyle:because we're millennials, right?
Chris Holling:Yeah, I think that could be Gen Z, perhaps.
Charlie Koyle:I don't know what they're, they're the Gen letters
Sean Cooper:There's gen x and z isn't there at this point.
Chris Holling:Yes.
Charlie Koyle:I'm getting old
Chris Holling:Well, but also people tend to just generalize the, the millennial thing. They pretty much say anybody that meets our age range, and newer, they tend to call Millennials even though it's inaccurate which anymore just means anybody 40 years old and young. But I digress.
Charlie Koyle:We'll just call them the, as an elder millennial, I'll call them The juvinile millenial. But you know, the other thing, and it kind of ties back to what I said at the beginning is insurance really should only be dictated by needs. And based on the the newer demographic, there's a much lower rate of homeownership, which in most cases, is the number one source of debt, right? Or at least a largest source of debt. And a lot of people don't look at it
Chris Holling:Love that credit card. as debt because you're gaining equity. And you're, you know, you're paying towards your principal. So it's really not like a ton. But that is money that you've borrowed, right? Like, that is not your money, you're renting the house from the bank for 30 years. And so when you think about life insurance, you want to make sure that you can cover your rent, right? But if they're not renting a house, if they don't have that giant, massive sum of debt, they have no need. So if there's no need, then they're not going to go forth and purchase a $400,000 term life policy to cover zero debt. Obviously, the avocado toast credit card might be pretty high or whatever.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, I mean, I love avocado toast. It's like the my favorite thing to make in my house. But
Chris Holling:I write millennial in it.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, the only reason I have my house was to make homemade avocado toast. I'll circle it back around. Like it, a lot of things are gonna change within the industry. And I think that the biggest thing that they're going to have to change is basically their investment strategy. Right now, it's still, as far as I know, right? Because I don't I don't see where they're putting their money. Most of us don't see where they're putting their money until well, after the fact. But most of it's fairly conservative, and it's blown,
Sean Cooper:don't they have some restrictions, regulatory wise in terms of how aggressive they can invest?
Charlie Koyle:So yes, but I still don't think that they've reached the pinnacle, right? Like, I don't think I don't, and I don't know for sure, right? Like, I'm, I'm totally, this is all opinion right here. I don't know, if they're just like slamming it all, like if their foot is on the gas as hard as it can be, and they're like, invest, invest, invest, if we go belly up, whatever, you know, the government will take care of us, which, if you're already talking about Social Security, we're doing it, we're doing a great job. But
Sean Cooper:right well
Charlie Koyle:but you know, I think that they're gonna have to change their strategy. And I think that one of the ways that obviously they're doing that is the fee versus commission based, because it gives them an opportunity to make more money. And just like any product, they can raise the price, you know, the rate of inflation is obviously higher. And as things change, like, regardless of the value of the dollar, they can increase their profit margins by increasing their price. And even if that's only by a couple of bucks here and there, that still overall can be a pretty massive percentage, depending on what the majority of their policies are. But like, if you look at some of their products, like variable, universal life, or indexed universal life, they already take a cut of the investment that that person is making. And this is just kind of like another way that they can do it is by dropping like on a on an IUL, they could drop that ceiling from say, 9% to 7%. Moving forward, and let's assume that the market is continuing its current trajectory, they're gonna make an additional 2% on that money that's invested. So it's, it's kind of like any product is, at least where I sit is they will find a way to survive. I don't know how they're gonna go about, I guess, increasing their customer base, because like I said, it should be needs based. It shouldn't be just a salesman saying you need life insurance, but it's gonna happen, we're gonna see kind of like a vicious cycle. I mean, we live in Colorado, or some of us live in Colorado, where I mean, my house price is skyrocketed. My first house I bought, went up by like, 30%, over four years, and I was able to sell that buy a new house, and it's already gone up by 10% in a year. So, I mean, you look at that cost. But the reality is, is that's not permanent. It's not going to stay like that. Just like these baby. These baby boomers that sounded so millennial of me, but eventually, there will be too many houses for people. Granted, it's not going to be next year. It's not going to be 20 years from now. But it will eventually change like it will ebb and it will flow and as it does that, you're going to see an increase in need for that. like life insurance, and this is where it's going to get more profitable, I think for the insurance companies is the 22 year olds aren't buying houses like they once were. But they're gonna buy them when they're 35. And when they're 35, the insurance companies are taking more risk, and what's associated with that risk is a higher cost to the consumer. They're likely, I mean, they're still very unlikely to pay out on most of their policies, depending on the type of policy and the ones that are guaranteed to pay out like a whole life and indexed universal life or variable life stuff like that. They're, they're guaranteed to make money off of that, or they wouldn't be selling it so on the products that they could potentially be losing, or that they're unable to sell right now, just because of the demographic that will change. And when it does change, I think it's going to become more profitable for the insurance companies because they're going to be able to charge whatever they want at that point. Because these people didn't get in when they were young. And it was cheap. And their financial adviser said, hey, you know, you might want to consider getting in before you're 25. Because your rates are going to change, hey, you might want to consider getting in before you're 30 Because your rates are going to change. Well, they didn't. So the rates are going to change, and it's going to be more expensive. And the associated expense is going to be moved forward to the company like that's, that's how I think it's going to happen. It's going to be kind of like a big circle. Do I think they'll cease to exist? Probably not. Do I think that they're going to raise prices? Most definitely. Do I think that they're going to find a way to make more money off of the products that are already out there? Definitely. And do I think that they'll figure out a way to make more money when people get older and start getting into these products? That's 100%. I can guarantee that.
Chris Holling:Yeah, I think those are all solid points. Really
Sean Cooper:That's a great summary. I liked it.
Chris Holling:Well, I mean, I'll tell you what I was, I was thinking about kind of circling back a little bit wrapping up, I guess is probably the the right term. Sean, did you did you want to touch on anything else here specifically?
Sean Cooper:I'm good
Chris Holling:Okay. Cool. Well, then I want to I want to go ahead and kind of get to wrapping up. But part of the wrapping up is I wanted to also touch on things with Charlie a little bit. Because as we're wrapping up, we appreciate Charlie, meeting up with us and going over all this stuff today, because I think we hit some some solid subjects and had some solid summaries, even in the process. But you also do have a podcast that you're planning to start that you have started coming up here soon. Do you want to do want to kind of talk about that self promote a little bit
Charlie Koyle:all of my long winded summaries? I
Chris Holling:Yes, you know, now now people can go Oh, but I love to the sound of those summaries. So what? What's this podcast that the long winded summary guys going to be doing here in the future?
Charlie Koyle:Well, it's, it's alright, what is the podcast? So it's gonna be it's not out yet. It's still in production. We've done the, I guess, like first phase where we started writing down kind of like our key elements and what we're going to talk about, but as you know, I'm a firefighter paramedic. So I have a different outlook on a lot of things than I think, some people and it just a different perspective, different life experiences, stuff like that. And then my buddy, who I've known for, ever, is a police officer in California. And so he has different experiences than I do, and usually most everyone, and I think that some of our lifestyle aspects have contributed to our ability to parent and what we do as fathers. So what our podcast is, we're gonna call it code four fathers. So keep your eye out. We already have the Twitter handle and the Instagram and all that stuff. So if you're trying to snake it, good luck. Hopefully, it'll be out by the time this podcast releases anyway,
Chris Holling:in July,
Charlie Koyle:in July. So, so yes, because I'm gonna be way faster at editing than Chris.
Chris Holling:That's not true.
Charlie Koyle:No, it's not true at all. I don't know what I'm doing. But, but the podcast is basically going to be two first responders kind of talking about parenting. And there's obviously a lot of parenting podcasts out there. But this one's going to be different, because this one isn't going to be all sunshine and rainbows. It's not going to be all happiness and all my babies the best and all that stuff. A lot of it's going to be talking about kind of some of the hurdles that we've experienced as newer parents, and what we've done to overcome them, and what our jobs have had as far as an impact on what we do as parents. So just to add one more thing to my plate. That's another thing that we've gotten in the works, but it really is going to be a parenting podcast for everyone. Obviously, we are going to be a little bit geared more towards fathers. Whether you're a first responder or not, hopefully everything will apply to you. I'm sure you can hear my kids in the background just like doing their thing.
Chris Holling:Shameless plug with the Kids in the background
Charlie Koyle:shameless plug with the kids in the background. But we basically created ideals based on what we do as first responders and kind of the different. I don't even know like, I wouldn't call it an ideal. But like, as a, as a firefighter, I look at things a little bit differently. I'm very much a type A personality, and it plays into what I do for a living. And I transition a lot of those aspects to home, which can be healthy and unhealthy. And we're going to talk about that. And
Chris Holling:I understand Yeah,
Charlie Koyle:but, but it also allows me kind of a different view on parenting. And so it's kind of just our way of getting it out there that not everything has to be HGTV and Instagram, happy puppies, babies, all that stuff. That there there are some downsides. There are some upsides there are some things that we've experienced that have helped us career wise as parents, and we want to make sure that we share them with everyone. Plus, it'll be fun.
Chris Holling:Yeah, I totally agree. I think that'd be really cool. I'm looking forward to it personally. Okay, cool. Well, so look out for it for for code four, I'm sorry, code four
Charlie Koyle:code four fathers.
Chris Holling:Okay, look out for it. Code four fathers. That'll be coming to,
Sean Cooper:as the non firefighter in the group is code four something in particular, or
Chris Holling:for the civilian here,
Charlie Koyle:nerd.
Chris Holling:It's the code that's pretty widely used, not everywhere, but very widely used as the all clear everything is okay. So if they call you on the radio and ask for a status check, and you say code four they say, everything is clear, I'm safe, everything is good. And that's
Sean Cooper:Gotcha.
Chris Holling:The nod to it
Sean Cooper:Thank you for that,
Chris Holling:you know, there there might be some crazy things happening. But you know, right now, everything's code four
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, we smooth, right. It's also a play on words. We haven't. I mean, we haven't finalized it, but we're creating it now. Like the 10 commandments, and I don't want to put a number on it. But it's actually a code four fathers. So like, to live by. But it is code and then the number 4 fathers. Because we're super cool. And like play on words. And he's a cop, and he's always like, I'm, code four brother, like,use English stupid. No, he's never actually said that, but I really hope that makes it into this podcast, so he can hear that. But yeah, so we've actually created a code to live by. And it's just different tenets that allow us to be better fathers, and to overcome a lot of the hardship that our careers have put on us on our home life. And, you know, it's not just first responders that struggle at home, or have these hurdles that we have to get over. Everybody has struggles. And so this is just kind of some rules that we live by, to make sure that we're always putting our kids and our families first, just like we put everybody else first, when we're work, we want to make sure that, you know, our families are coming first at home. So it's, it is the code four fathers by the code for fathers,
Chris Holling:you know, you know, what you should do is you should do like
Charlie Koyle:patent pending, copyright?
Chris Holling:So, you should do like, sub codes within the code. So, like, you know, not, you know, I understand not 10 commandments or whatever, but like, you know, the, the the 10th code is to not sweat the small stuff. But then you have an episode where you talk about, sometimes the small stuff is those sleepless nights, and that was the third thing you talked about in the 10th of not sweating the small stuff like my, my 10 Three, my code 10 Three is really wearing on me right now. Like, oh, man, you got to get some more sleep.
Charlie Koyle:You really need a 10 one brother. It's funny you said that, because that is one of them.
Chris Holling:Oh, that's great.
Charlie Koyle:You nailed it.
Chris Holling:Well, it's because I trie to not sweat the small stuff and tried to stay code four brother.
Charlie Koyle:You live the life brother.
Chris Holling:Cool. All right. Well, then, let me let me wrap this up. Thank you again, Mr. Charlie, for joining us out here today and helping us put a a bonus button. I was gonna say put a button but it's really like a bonus button, bonus episode bonus button on to the season and kind of knocking this out and finishing out with us. I appreciate it. And appreciate your time with us today.
Charlie Koyle:Happy to be here.
Chris Holling:And
Sean Cooper:It was great having you, lots of good information.
Chris Holling:Yeah, it really was.
Charlie Koyle:I'm super happy that I got to be on the podcast because I'm a truth about investing back to basics nerd.
Chris Holling:Yeah, at least our number two fan. Maybe two,
Charlie Koyle:I think is what's his name, John. The guy that runs around to the libraries and downloads it 20 times I'm pretty sure but I've got John beat
Chris Holling:yeah, all right. John, got your work cut out for you,
Charlie Koyle:Bring it on John.
Chris Holling:Well, thank you again, everybody for coming out and listening to us. We appreciate you hope these were more tools for the toolbox. And thank you for taking the time to want to learn how to better yourselves. And thank you for listening to the truth about investing back to basics. My name is Chris Holling.
Sean Cooper:I'm Sean Cooper
Chris Holling:and our guest with us,
Charlie Koyle:Charlie Coyle,
Chris Holling:and we will catch you on the next episode the next season of The Truth about investing back to basics. Podcast Disclaimer, disclaimer. The disclaimer following this disclaimer, is the disclaimer that is required for this podcast to be up and running and fully functioning and moving forward. This is going to be the same disclaimer that you will hear in each one of our episodes. We hope you enjoy it just as much as we enjoyed making it. All content on this podcast and accompanying transcript is for informational purposes only. Opinions expressed herein by Sean Cooper are solely those of fit financial consulting, LLC unless otherwise specifically cited. Chris Holling and Charlie Coyle are not affiliated with fit financial consulting, LLC. Nor do the views expressed by Chris Holling or Charlie Coyle represent the views of fit financial consulting, LLC. This podcast is intended to be used in its entirety. Any other use beyond its author's intent, distribution or copying of the contents of this podcast is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this podcast is intended as legal accounting or tax advice, and is for informational purposes only. All information or ideas provided should be discussed in detail with an advisor, accountant or legal counsel prior to implementation. This podcast may reference links to websites for the convenience of our users. Our firm has no control over the accuracy or content of these other websites. advisory services are offered through fit financial consulting, LLC, an investment advisor firm registered in the states of Washington and Colorado. The presence of this podcast on the internet shall not be directly or indirectly interpreted as a solicitation of investment advisory services to persons of another jurisdiction unless otherwise permitted by statute, follow up or individualized responses to consumers in a particular state by our firm in the rendering of personalized investment advice for compensation shall not be made without our first complying with jurisdiction requirements, or pursuant an applicable state exemption for information concerning the status or disciplinary history of a broker, dealer, investment advisor, or other representatives a consumers should contact their state securities administrator. Thank you. And good night.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, are you going to cut out all these spikes then
Chris Holling:maybe I'll consider it
Charlie Koyle:It's almost fun at this point,
Chris Holling:I might just leave it at this point.
Charlie Koyle:I out of all the times you said this is going to be a nightmare to edit. That's why I keep doing this and going on. Because it's fun for me.
Chris Holling:As Sean experiences sometimes he does that. And then he remains the antagonist in the recording. And I say so maybe I'll just leave it and goes, Yeah, sure, whatever.
Sean Cooper:Sometimes I really do just disappear completely.
Chris Holling:That's true.
Charlie Koyle:So I want you to know that through that whole exchange, part of me just started, like, in my head. I was like I was just gonna say and I'm Charlie Coyle and just like, make it really hard for you to edit
Chris Holling:It would have matched up and it's going to be great too, because you you wouldn't even know. Like, I tried to mess with him so hard.
Charlie Koyle:I'm Charlie Koyle.
Chris Holling:I'll see you already told me you already did it. You already did the I'm Charlie Koyle
Charlie Koyle:and I'm Charlie Koyle. I'm Charlie Koyle. You're gonna have seven different ones to pick from.
Chris Holling:I see how it is
Charlie Koyle:Charlie Koyle
Sean Cooper:that you will have to edit out.
Chris Holling:Oh, Sean, with his standards.
Charlie Koyle:Well, yeah, you can't put that in there. Well,
Chris Holling:I mean, says you I can't do anything once.
Charlie Koyle:I'm not in control. And I'm Charlie Koyle. Well, I just want to know if everything I said was in line with everything you guys talked about in your previous episodes, or if I just totally contradicted everything?
Sean Cooper:No, no, it was in line. It was very much in line. I just, if somebody listened to it, and then they're like, Charlie, you're repeating what they just said.
Chris Holling:I thought you listened,
Sean Cooper:yeah, exactly.
Charlie Koyle:I'm wicked Smart. Sean's wicked smart Chris is there.
Chris Holling:wicked smart Marginally, marginally marginally present.
Charlie Koyle:I'm well
Chris Holling:Yeah, it's gonna be a nice transition into the next season. Actually, I know We're gonna touch on Social Security. So it'll be a nice little
Charlie Koyle:Taste test to the season I hope.
Chris Holling:Maybe depends on how confused I get
Sean Cooper:Chris gets nervous every time I'm like, oh, that's gonna be an episode two. It might be five episodes.
Chris Holling:Let me tell you something Charlie, okay, this, this this may not even make it into our recording, but this is exactly how Season Five appeared. Said hey, looks like we've got to talk about life insurance. Do you? Do you want to do an episode of that? Nah, it's gonna be more than an episode. Okay, well, we can do two episodes. No we should do a season we should do a what? And, and then we and then we did a season of life insurance, which
Sean Cooper:And annuities
Chris Holling:and annuities Well, that's what he said to his he's like, Yeah, I mean, I guess we can, we can narrow it down to like five.
Charlie Koyle:Yeah, Annuities are technically an insurance product.
Sean Cooper:Exactly. Which is why it fit into the
Chris Holling:It did fit
Sean Cooper:season. Yeah, it fit it fits.
Charlie Koyle:But it's not like traditional insurance. All right. Well, right.
Sean Cooper:True